P38A Mot woes - upper and lower hub carrier balljoints etc

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A

alanlucas

Well-Known Member
Posts
300
Location
stoke on trent
Well the car failed its mot on the 11th, both n/s and o/s front lower balljoints boots split , all 4 front lower shock absorber rubber bushes perished (not when i took them off to replace them they weren't), n/s/f cv gaiter outer clip missing - god knows when that parted company and the nearside hockey stick to gearbox crossmember rear bush torn. The hockey stick rubber bush and shock absorber rubber bushes were easy peasy but separating the hub from the carrier and then separating the carrier from the axle was a PITA. Decided to buy 4 new balljoints anyway being as I have to dismantle the whole assembly to replace 2 rubber lower balljoint boots. Just as well as n/s lower balljoint was shot. Pressed both upper and lower balljoints out and fitted new ones with a £30 eBay tool. Only done the nearside so far but going to get both hub carriers shotblasted and painted before refitting and then fit both hubs with new bolts and fit new CV boots to driveshafts. Had to cut the rusted ends of the protruding threads of the hub bolts off with a cutting disc and then unscrew them several turns and then whack the heads with a 2lb lump hammer to break the seal between hub and carrier as they were rusted together and you can't avoid damaging the CV boot. The balljoints were easy by comparison using the tool and dies and a 1/2" drive 3 foot breaker bar. The other issue was the ABS sensor seized into the hub carrier, so drifted it out which destroyed it, so have ordered 2 new ones c/w with copper clips and rubber seals. Just wondering if I ought to replace the steel sensor sleeves FTC2249 while I am at it as well as the screw in tapered collet FTC3572 at the bottom of the hub carrier as they are both seized in as well ? I guess I can leave the collet as is because it is already set at the correct height for half shaft vertical alignment - that reminds me - 2 new halfshaft oil seals as well.
 
Last edited:
Sounds like mine. For inspiration below:D
IMG_20210912_164110_454.jpg
 
alanlucas said:
Well the car failed its mot on the 11th, both n/s and o/s front lower balljoints boots split , all 4 front lower shock absorber rubber bushes perished (not when i took them off to replace them they weren't), n/s/f cv gaiter outer clip missing - god knows when that parted company and the nearside hockey stick to gearbox crossmember rear bush torn. The hockey stick rubber bush and shock absorber rubber bushes were easy peasy but separating the hub from the carrier and then separating the carrier from the axle was a PITA. Decided to buy 4 new balljoints anyway being as I have to dismantle the whole assembly to replace 2 rubber lower balljoint boots. Just as well as n/s lower balljoint was shot. Pressed both upper and lower balljoints out and fitted new ones with a £30 eBay tool. Only done the nearside so far but going to get both hub carriers shotblasted and painted before refitting and then fit both hubs with new bolts and fit new CV boots to driveshafts. Had to cut the rusted ends of the protruding threads of the hub bolts off with a cutting disc and then unscrew them several turns and then whack the heads with a 2lb lump hammer to break the seal between hub and carrier as they were rusted together and you can't avoid damaging the CV boot. The balljoints were easy by comparison using the tool and dies and a 1/2" drive 3 foot breaker bar. The other issue was the ABS sensor seized into the hub carrier, so drifted it out which destroyed it, so have ordered 2 new ones c/w with copper clips and rubber seals. Just wondering if I ought to replace the steel sensor sleeves FTC2249 while I am at it as well as the screw in tapered collet FTC3572 at the bottom of the hub carrier as they are both seized in as well ? I guess I can leave the collet as is because it is already set at the correct height for half shaft vertical alignment - that reminds me - 2 new halfshaft oil seals as well.
Click to expand...
All the normal jobs for a 20yr p38. White connectors in the footwell, Orings on the heater, pollen filter fittings under the screen and clips that drip into it. Body cracks between the sides and roof above the screen.. Oh, yeah rear brake lines, fuel pump in tank, fuel pump seals on the engine... Anymore anyone else?? :p;)
 
alanlucas said:
Well the car failed its mot on the 11th, both n/s and o/s front lower balljoints boots split , all 4 front lower shock absorber rubber bushes perished (not when i took them off to replace them they weren't), n/s/f cv gaiter outer clip missing - god knows when that parted company and the nearside hockey stick to gearbox crossmember rear bush torn. The hockey stick rubber bush and shock absorber rubber bushes were easy peasy but separating the hub from the carrier and then separating the carrier from the axle was a PITA. Decided to buy 4 new balljoints anyway being as I have to dismantle the whole assembly to replace 2 rubber lower balljoint boots. Just as well as n/s lower balljoint was shot. Pressed both upper and lower balljoints out and fitted new ones with a £30 eBay tool. Only done the nearside so far but going to get both hub carriers shotblasted and painted before refitting and then fit both hubs with new bolts and fit new CV boots to driveshafts. Had to cut the rusted ends of the protruding threads of the hub bolts off with a cutting disc and then unscrew them several turns and then whack the heads with a 2lb lump hammer to break the seal between hub and carrier as they were rusted together and you can't avoid damaging the CV boot. The balljoints were easy by comparison using the tool and dies and a 1/2" drive 3 foot breaker bar. The other issue was the ABS sensor seized into the hub carrier, so drifted it out which destroyed it, so have ordered 2 new ones c/w with copper clips and rubber seals. Just wondering if I ought to replace the steel sensor sleeves FTC2249 while I am at it as well as the screw in tapered collet FTC3572 at the bottom of the hub carrier as they are both seized in as well ? I guess I can leave the collet as is because it is already set at the correct height for half shaft vertical alignment - that reminds me - 2 new halfshaft oil seals as well.
Click to expand...
Leave the steel sensor sleeves FTC2249 alone as well as the screw in tapered collet FTC3572. CV joints are cheap enough, might be worth replacing them if the boots are to be replaced as you have to remove the CV joints from the drive shaft to replace the boot. I replaced them on mine at Euro45 each.
 
Flossie said:
Sounds like mine. For inspiration below:DView attachment 250685
Click to expand...
ha,

Well I got all the jobs done that I listed. As advised I didn't free off and adjust the collets in the hub carriers, but when I reassembled everything both drive shafts were sitting approx 5mm low in the axle tube i.e. there wasn't an even gap above and below the steel disc that sits against the oil seals. Had to remove the bottom balljoint nuts and try and crack the collets free with them them being both rusted in the carrier and also stuck on the balljoint taper. Used my metre long 1/2" breaker bar and a 2 foot cheater tube. Managed to free off the drivers side and adjust the collet but the nearside won't budge. Don't want to try and crack the balljoint taper free with a balljoint splitter or pickle fork as I don't want to risk buggering the balljoint rubber and having to strip it all down again. Cordless Impact wrench on order. In theory once the collet starts to unscrew it should release from the balljoint taper.
 
Mark Piercy said:
All the normal jobs for a 20yr p38. White connectors in the footwell, Orings on the heater, pollen filter fittings under the screen and clips that drip into it. Body cracks between the sides and roof above the screen.. Oh, yeah rear brake lines, fuel pump in tank, fuel pump seals on the engine... Anymore anyone else?? :p;)
Click to expand...

I redid the pollen filter caps a while back with new thicker neoprene cut to shape and sealed the clips and the plenum covers with black silicone. Also took the roofrails and top and side windscreen trims off to check for seam cracks - all ok. Had an issue with one corroded wire in the loom by the drivers sill which was affecting the locking unlocking which i cut out and soldered a new piece in and rewrapped the loom. I changed the plenum foam 2 or 3 years ago but it disintegrated again so used 5mm aperture stainless mesh instead. Still got a brand new set of Dunlop airbags in the boot but haven't gotten round to fitting them yet as I discovered that all 4 ride height sensors had been removed, presumably by whoever converted it to springs.
 
alanlucas said:
ha,

Well I got all the jobs done that I listed. As advised I didn't free off and adjust the collets in the hub carriers, but when I reassembled everything both drive shafts were sitting approx 5mm low in the axle tube i.e. there wasn't an even gap above and below the steel disc that sits against the oil seals. Had to remove the bottom balljoint nuts and try and crack the collets free with them them being both rusted in the carrier and also stuck on the balljoint taper. Used my metre long 1/2" breaker bar and a 2 foot cheater tube. Managed to free off the drivers side and adjust the collet but the nearside won't budge. Don't want to try and crack the balljoint taper free with a balljoint splitter or pickle fork as I don't want to risk buggering the balljoint rubber and having to strip it all down again. Cordless Impact wrench on order. In theory once the collet starts to unscrew it should release from the balljoint taper.
Click to expand...
I think you are unlikely to turn the collet unless you break the ball joint taper as the collet is split and expands to lock it with the taper inserted.
There is something wrong in what you have done, no way the shaft can be 5mm lower when the ball joint is replaced. Either you have not fitted the ball joints into the axle yoke correctly or you have duff ball joints. Before adjusting the collet, I would look into why you have the misalignment.
 
Datatek said:
I think you are unlikely to turn the collet unless you break the ball joint taper as the collet is split and expands to lock it with the taper inserted.
There is something wrong in what you have done, no way the shaft can be 5mm lower when the ball joint is replaced. Either you have not fitted the ball joints into the axle yoke correctly or you have duff ball joints. Before adjusting the collet, I would look into why you have the misalignment.
Click to expand...

I managed to break the taper on the nearside lower balljoint with a 2 legged gear puller and adjusted the collet to centre the driveshaft, torqued the balljoint nut back up and checked the measurement against the offside which I had already centred. Both sides measure the same at 10mm from top of collet to underside of hub carrier. Maybe the 5mm drop in the driveshaft height was measured at the time with the collet removed altogether on the drivers side. I never measured the collet distance when the hub carriers were off the vehicle so I haven't a measurement to compare it with. It is what it is. All 4 balljoints are pressed home fully up to their flanges. Balljoints were purchased from Maltings Offroad. Maybe the non genuine balljoints are made to a different spec or the tolerances are different.
 
alanlucas said:
I managed to break the taper on the nearside lower balljoint with a 2 legged gear puller and adjusted the collet to centre the driveshaft, torqued the balljoint nut back up and checked the measurement against the offside which I had already centred. Both sides measure the same at 10mm from top of collet to underside of hub carrier. Maybe the 5mm drop in the driveshaft height was measured at the time with the collet removed altogether on the drivers side. I never measured the collet distance when the hub carriers were off the vehicle so I haven't a measurement to compare it with. It is what it is. All 4 balljoints are pressed home fully up to their flanges. Balljoints were purchased from Maltings Offroad. Maybe the non genuine balljoints are made to a different spec or the tolerances are different.
Click to expand...
Unless the drive shaft is accurately centred, it will destroy the oil seal in the end of the axle tube.
 
Datatek said:
Unless the drive shaft is accurately centred, it will destroy the oil seal in the end of the axle tube.
Click to expand...

Data,

Yes I'm well aware of that, hence the importance of me having to adjust the collets to centre the shafts, after not bothering initially because I was advised to leave them alone.
I have read somewhere that the new design of seal has greater tolerance of an off centre driveshaft, but I have also read that dependent on the seal manufacturer that some seals are also too tight on the driveshaft and end up binding on the shaft and destroying themselves. Time will tell I guess. Worst case scenario at least the hubs will come out easier as i greased the carrier apertures and faces and used new bolts and the new Abs sensors will actually be able to be removed without destroying them.
 
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