More from Youtube (OT)

This Youtube invention is addictive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg1uyRJjqaQ

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

--
Rich
==============================

Take out the obvious to email me.

On 2006-10-05 20:17:22 +0100, "Richard Brookman"
<[email protected]> said:

> This Youtube invention is addictive.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg1uyRJjqaQ
>
> I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Considering three people died I'd hope it was the former. That was
caused by the computers which assumed that as the flaps were in landing
position, the gear was down and the altitude matched a landing
manoeuvre, the pilot wished to land. When he opend the throttles at the
end of the flypast the computer ignored it!

--
Darren Griffin
PocketGPSWorld - www.PocketGPSWorld.com
The Premier GPS Resource for News, Reviews and Forums

Darren Griffin - PocketGPSWorld.Com wrote:

|| On 2006-10-05 20:17:22 +0100, "Richard Brookman"
|| <[email protected]> said:
||
||| This Youtube invention is addictive.
|||
||| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg1uyRJjqaQ
|||
||| I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
||
|| Considering three people died I'd hope it was the former.

You mean the latter?

Fair enough - from the soundtrack I though it was a fully-automated test
flight. People dying's never funny.

--
Rich
==============================

Take out the obvious to email me.

Darren Griffin - PocketGPSWorld.Com wrote:
> On 2006-10-05 20:17:22 +0100, "Richard Brookman"
> <[email protected]> said:
>
>> This Youtube invention is addictive.
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg1uyRJjqaQ
>>
>> I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
>
> Considering three people died I'd hope it was the former. That was
> caused by the computers which assumed that as the flaps were in landing
> position, the gear was down and the altitude matched a landing
> manoeuvre, the pilot wished to land. When he opend the throttles at the
> end of the flypast the computer ignored it!

You just made that up.

John

Thanks for that Richard, as a nervous flyer I shouldn't have watched it.
I fly to the Land of Pantelis again on Sunday.
TonyB

John Greystrong wrote:
> Darren Griffin - PocketGPSWorld.Com wrote:
>
>> On 2006-10-05 20:17:22 +0100, "Richard Brookman"
>> <[email protected]> said:
>>
>>> This Youtube invention is addictive.
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg1uyRJjqaQ
>>>
>>> I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
>>
>>
>> Considering three people died I'd hope it was the former. That was
>> caused by the computers which assumed that as the flaps were in
>> landing position, the gear was down and the altitude matched a landing
>> manoeuvre, the pilot wished to land. When he opend the throttles at
>> the end of the flypast the computer ignored it!
>
>
> You just made that up.
>
> John
Nope,

He was spot on.

The pilot over-rode the computer and applied power to the engines
manually, but by the time they had spooled up (about 8 seconds) it was
too late.

It was an Airbus by the way!

Cheers

Peter

>Considering three people died I'd hope it was the former. That was caused
>by the computers which assumed that as the flaps were in landing position,
>the gear was down and the altitude matched a landing manoeuvre, the pilot
>wished to land. When he opend the throttles at the end of the flypast the
>computer ignored it!
>


It is not at all clear that this is what happened in this crash.

The official report effectively blames pilot error, flying at 30' for the
display fly-past rather than the planned 100' and opening the throttles too
late.

However, there are other circumstances; both flight recorders had been
tampered with BEFORE the authorities could inspect them, and the pilot (who
survived) claims that he believed that he was at the correct altitude and
that the engines were slow to spool-up.and the aircraft did not respond to
the stick.

It is apparent that there was a altimeter problem on the aircraft, giving a
reading of 63' whilst still on the ground. This would account for the low
altitude, but whether the crew should have noticed is another matter.

The auto-thrust system was switched off on the aircraft. This was necessary
to complete the planned display. This could have contributed to the slow
spool-up. There is also the possibility of 'stagnation' in the engines.
Modifications were made after the crash to improve the hydraulic moving of
vanes in the engine at low rpm. This is also associated with 'compressor
stall' which had already happened on another A320.

The pilots reported lack of response to the stick may have been due to a
software problem. The official report discounts this because the Angle of
Attack Protection would have overridden the 'landing mode'. There is some
dispute about this due to variations in the timings, the altitudes and AoA;
notably a missing 4 seconds from the data in the flight recorders.

All in all the whole thing is a complete disaster if you pardon the pun.

Regards
Jeff

On or around Thu, 05 Oct 2006 23:16:07 GMT, puffernutter
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>John Greystrong wrote:
>> Darren Griffin - PocketGPSWorld.Com wrote:
>>
>>> On 2006-10-05 20:17:22 +0100, "Richard Brookman"
>>> <[email protected]> said:
>>>
>>>> This Youtube invention is addictive.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg1uyRJjqaQ
>>>>
>>>> I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
>>>
>>>
>>> Considering three people died I'd hope it was the former. That was
>>> caused by the computers which assumed that as the flaps were in
>>> landing position, the gear was down and the altitude matched a landing
>>> manoeuvre, the pilot wished to land. When he opend the throttles at
>>> the end of the flypast the computer ignored it!
>>
>>
>> You just made that up.
>>
>> John
>Nope,
>
>He was spot on.
>
>The pilot over-rode the computer and applied power to the engines
>manually, but by the time they had spooled up (about 8 seconds) it was
>too late.
>
>It was an Airbus by the way!

actually, you can hear the engines come on thrust right at the end of the
clip. Mind you, 8 seconds, that's some turbo lag.

I bet that caused some red faces in the computer programming depratment.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Pereant qui ante nos nostra dixerunt"
(confound the men who have made our remarks before us.)
Aelius Donatus (4th Cent.) [St. Jerome, Commentary on Ecclesiastes]

TonyB wrote:

|| Thanks for that Richard, as a nervous flyer I shouldn't have watched
|| it. I fly to the Land of Pantelis again on Sunday.
|| TonyB

Really really sorry! I'm such a nervous flyer I am a confirmed non-flyer
now. If I've made your pre-journey nerves worse, just up the dose of whisky
and diazepam on the approach section.

Safe journey, seriously.

--
Rich
==============================

Take out the obvious to email me.

Austin Shackles wrote:

> actually, you can hear the engines come on thrust right at the end of the
> clip. Mind you, 8 seconds, that's some turbo lag.

The "turbo lag" on big jets IS very long, there's a lot of metal to spin
very very fast. and the power curve is pretty horrible too.

Steve

I'm not watching anything just based on the discussion here - I'm
flying tomorrow!

Here is a legimately funny thing though - Cockroach and the Weatherman,
seriously funny:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TT4XO3Hjp7M

Jeff wrote:
> >Considering three people died I'd hope it was the former. That was caused
> >by the computers which assumed that as the flaps were in landing position,
> >the gear was down and the altitude matched a landing manoeuvre, the pilot
> >wished to land. When he opend the throttles at the end of the flypast the
> >computer ignored it!
> >
>
>
> It is not at all clear that this is what happened in this crash.
>
> The official report effectively blames pilot error, flying at 30' for the
> display fly-past rather than the planned 100' and opening the throttles too
> late.
>
> However, there are other circumstances; both flight recorders had been
> tampered with BEFORE the authorities could inspect them, and the pilot (who
> survived) claims that he believed that he was at the correct altitude and
> that the engines were slow to spool-up.and the aircraft did not respond to
> the stick.
>
> It is apparent that there was a altimeter problem on the aircraft, giving a
> reading of 63' whilst still on the ground. This would account for the low
> altitude, but whether the crew should have noticed is another matter.
>
> The auto-thrust system was switched off on the aircraft. This was necessary
> to complete the planned display. This could have contributed to the slow
> spool-up. There is also the possibility of 'stagnation' in the engines.
> Modifications were made after the crash to improve the hydraulic moving of
> vanes in the engine at low rpm. This is also associated with 'compressor
> stall' which had already happened on another A320.
>
> The pilots reported lack of response to the stick may have been due to a
> software problem. The official report discounts this because the Angle of
> Attack Protection would have overridden the 'landing mode'. There is some
> dispute about this due to variations in the timings, the altitudes and AoA;
> notably a missing 4 seconds from the data in the flight recorders.
>
> All in all the whole thing is a complete disaster if you pardon the pun.
>
> Regards
> Jeff

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm not watching anything just based on the discussion here - I'm
> flying tomorrow!
>
> Here is a legimately funny thing though - Cockroach and the Weatherman,
> seriously funny:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TT4XO3Hjp7M
>

Most men would have just stepped on the fecker so I can't help but think
that he was dressed in the wrong colour suit. He sounded like pink would be
much more his hue.

Steve

>
> Really really sorry! I'm such a nervous flyer I am a confirmed non-flyer
> now. If I've made your pre-journey nerves worse, just up the dose of
whisky
> and diazepam on the approach section.
>
> Safe journey, seriously.

Only kidding, I do hate the flying and didn't do it for 20 years.
Then I decided that I wasn't going to let it stop me enjoying myself
so we flew to Greece for a sailing holiday. It was so good we're doing it
again.

I prefer Ativan to Valium as Valium can leave you woozy for over 100 hours,
Ativan is faster and more intense in it's action, and dissipates faster.

TonyB

On 2006-10-05 20:50:08 +0100, "Richard Brookman"
>
> You mean the latter?

Indeed, apols!

--
Darren Griffin
PocketGPSWorld - www.PocketGPSWorld.com
The Premier GPS Resource for News, Reviews and Forums

Tony Hi,

does that mean that you fly the plane to Greece or you are flying by plane
to Greece?

Next time you are here send me an e-mail at pantgATotenetDOTgr and I may
be able to meet you at the airport for a coffee.

Take care
Pantelis

"TonyB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Thanks for that Richard, as a nervous flyer I shouldn't have watched it.
> I fly to the Land of Pantelis again on Sunday.
> TonyB
>
>

OK now that is clear.

Which company did you use for your boating/sailing excursion?

I have a friend who is renting sailboats so if you wish I can give you his
phone number and contact details.

Take care
Pantelis

"TonyB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
> > Really really sorry! I'm such a nervous flyer I am a confirmed
non-flyer
> > now. If I've made your pre-journey nerves worse, just up the dose of
> whisky
> > and diazepam on the approach section.
> >
> > Safe journey, seriously.
>
> Only kidding, I do hate the flying and didn't do it for 20 years.
> Then I decided that I wasn't going to let it stop me enjoying myself
> so we flew to Greece for a sailing holiday. It was so good we're doing it
> again.
>
> I prefer Ativan to Valium as Valium can leave you woozy for over 100
hours,
> Ativan is faster and more intense in it's action, and dissipates faster.
>
> TonyB
>
>

TonyB wrote:

||| Really really sorry! I'm such a nervous flyer I am a confirmed
||| non-flyer now. If I've made your pre-journey nerves worse, just up
||| the dose of whisky and diazepam on the approach section.
|||
||| Safe journey, seriously.
||
|| Only kidding, I do hate the flying and didn't do it for 20 years.
|| Then I decided that I wasn't going to let it stop me enjoying myself
|| so we flew to Greece for a sailing holiday. It was so good we're
|| doing it again.
||
|| I prefer Ativan to Valium as Valium can leave you woozy for over 100
|| hours, Ativan is faster and more intense in it's action, and
|| dissipates faster.
||
|| TonyB

I have never taken Valium, although I lived for many years with someone who
did, and I've never been tempted to indulge. However, if I can find what
was in the pre-op pill they gave me before an operation I had a few years
ago, I would buy the company! I was filling my pants about going through an
op that basically involved shoving a 4" nail up my nostrils, and a couple of
hours before I was due to go in a nurse gave me a little white pill. I
asked what it was (despite being brought up in the 60s I am pretty cautious
about all drugs), and she said it was a pre-med thing to calm me down.
Calm! I was floating on air, not a care in the world, bring on the surgeons
and let 'em do their worst! If I could have one of *those* before flying I
think I would go anywhere.

--
Rich
==============================

Take out the obvious to email me.

Richard Brookman wrote:
> TonyB wrote:
>
>>>> Really really sorry! I'm such a nervous flyer I am a confirmed
>>>> non-flyer now. If I've made your pre-journey nerves worse, just
>>>> up the dose of whisky and diazepam on the approach section.
>>>>
>>>> Safe journey, seriously.
>>>
>>> Only kidding, I do hate the flying and didn't do it for 20 years.
>>> Then I decided that I wasn't going to let it stop me enjoying
>>> myself so we flew to Greece for a sailing holiday. It was so good
>>> we're doing it again.
>>>
>>> I prefer Ativan to Valium as Valium can leave you woozy for over
>>> 100 hours, Ativan is faster and more intense in it's action, and
>>> dissipates faster.
>>>
>>> TonyB
>
> I have never taken Valium, although I lived for many years with
> someone who did, and I've never been tempted to indulge. However,
> if I can find what was in the pre-op pill they gave me before an
> operation I had a few years ago, I would buy the company! I was
> filling my pants about going through an op that basically involved
> shoving a 4" nail up my nostrils, and a couple of hours before I
> was due to go in a nurse gave me a little white pill. I asked what
> it was (despite being brought up in the 60s I am pretty cautious
> about all drugs), and she said it was a pre-med thing to calm me
> down. Calm! I was floating on air, not a care in the world, bring
> on the surgeons and let 'em do their worst! If I could have one of
> *those* before flying I think I would go anywhere.

The thing with flying to me is the boredom & the fact i'm not a small chap. Planes are remarkably
reliable. I suppose it could be a control thing to some. I'm not the best car passenger in the world as i
do drive a hell of a lot myself.

--
Ta!

Nige

Subaru WRX (54)
Land Rover Turbo Diesel 110 (G)
KTM 520 SX (2001)
Kawasaki ZZR 1100 (1995)

Nige wrote:

|| Richard Brookman wrote:
||| TonyB wrote:
|||
|||||| Really really sorry! I'm such a nervous flyer I am a confirmed
|||||| non-flyer now. If I've made your pre-journey nerves worse, just
|||||| up the dose of whisky and diazepam on the approach section.
||||||
|||||| Safe journey, seriously.
|||||
||||| Only kidding, I do hate the flying and didn't do it for 20 years.
||||| Then I decided that I wasn't going to let it stop me enjoying
||||| myself so we flew to Greece for a sailing holiday. It was so good
||||| we're doing it again.
|||||
||||| I prefer Ativan to Valium as Valium can leave you woozy for over
||||| 100 hours, Ativan is faster and more intense in it's action, and
||||| dissipates faster.
|||||
||||| TonyB
|||
||| I have never taken Valium, although I lived for many years with
||| someone who did, and I've never been tempted to indulge. However,
||| if I can find what was in the pre-op pill they gave me before an
||| operation I had a few years ago, I would buy the company! I was
||| filling my pants about going through an op that basically involved
||| shoving a 4" nail up my nostrils, and a couple of hours before I
||| was due to go in a nurse gave me a little white pill. I asked what
||| it was (despite being brought up in the 60s I am pretty cautious
||| about all drugs), and she said it was a pre-med thing to calm me
||| down. Calm! I was floating on air, not a care in the world, bring
||| on the surgeons and let 'em do their worst! If I could have one of
||| *those* before flying I think I would go anywhere.
||
|| The thing with flying to me is the boredom & the fact i'm not a
|| small chap. Planes are remarkably reliable. I suppose it could be a
|| control thing to some. I'm not the best car passenger in the world
|| as i do drive a hell of a lot myself.

Yes, I'm sure it's the control thing. I'm a lousy car passenger too. There
are very few drivers I am totally relaxed with. I tend to weigh them up in
the first couple of miles and then either fall asleep or spend the rest of
the journey pumping hell out of the passenger footwell with my right foot.

--
Rich
==============================

Take out the obvious to email me.

"Pantelis Giamarellos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> OK now that is clear.
>
> Which company did you use for your boating/sailing excursion?
>
> I have a friend who is renting sailboats so if you wish I can give you his
> phone number and contact details.
>
> Take care
> Pantelis

Cool. Thanks Pantelis that would be great for next time.
You can get me at the following:
crc.medicalATbtinternet.com
Don't suppose you'll be near Platerias this weekend?
Regards
TonyB