ronsealdeath
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That v6 engine is not a Land Rover engine, its PSA/Ford i think. Im no expert but having to remove the body to replace a turbo hints towards there being a better solution.
M57 into discovery 3?
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Nodge68
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It is a Ford/PSA unit, which was developed by Ford and PSA. Ford call it the Lion V6, JLR call it the AJD-V6, and PSA use the designation TD17/20.
It's a very good engine, but some of the components are made in France by small engineering firms, which apparently is where some QC issues arise.
There's no need to remove the body to change the turbo, it's just easier to get at if the body it's off the chassis.
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300bhp/ton
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Well no. As that is more about the vehicle design than the engine. And the D3/RRS are purposely designed to allow the body to be lifted from the frame. And not just for the TDV6 as at least 3 other engines are used in those vehicles.
sierrafery
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100% true, implanting any other engine than the D3's electronics was designed for would be an ugly botch, no system or instrument will work well on that vehicle exept maybe that it will accelerate if you push the throttle and slow down if you push the brake
iaanb
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Because they snap cranks and they snap cranks and if you have been on the receiving end of a snapped crank on two occasions in the same vehicle in short succession, then looking at alternate engines for an otherwise very nice and comfortable vehicle, would probably be good enough reason for looking at an economical and practical option to keep on enjoying the vehicle. Statistics as to percentage of snapped cranks does not help if you are one of those affected, so I see the question as "I want to fit a M57 engine into my Discovery 3, is there information out there on the forum to assist me in doing this conversion" and not, "Can I have your permission to fit a M57 engine in my Discovery 3".
I believe some engineering outfit in the UK has successfully done the above conversion with all electronics talking to each other and I will attempt to find out who they are and see if with their input, I can do the same done to my vehicle...
Maybe see if there is a yank forum, as they like to swap engines in all sorts of vehicles, especially hgvs, and I have seen a thread on fb where a guy posted a link to a company that specialised in looms to match odd engines.
A guy up Scotland and a couple of others on fb have fitted the rr 3.6 v8 into their d3s.
Nodge68
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The crank issue is always going to be in the back of the mind of TDV6 owners, it was when I had one.
I definitely wouldn't go down the engine swap route though.
Having a steel billet crank made to the exact dimensions of the original would be a fraction of the cost of a non OE engine swap.
The rods and mains could also have bearing tab cutouts at the same time for extra security against shell rotation.
This way all the original electronic and mechanical components remain, only the failure points on the TDV6 would be eliminated.
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Reading this, (and agreeing totally with it as the common sense way to cure the problem of insecurity about the issue) I totally cannot believe that they don't come with bearing tab cutouts. What the absolute feck were the designers thinking of?
mind you, where is a Woodruff key now?
Madness!
Nodge68
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In reality the tabs on bearings are only for location on assembly, the "crush" on the outside of the shell within cap is, or should be more than enough to stop them from spinning. However it's not the lack of retention that I believe is the issue with these bearings, it's incorrect placement on assembly which is, which of course is completely eliminated if tabs were fitted.
As for the designer not wanting tabs, I'm sure they did, but it's the bean counters that miss these steps as it saves on operations of manufacturing, which saves cost per unit built.
It's the same with keyways. Many modern engines have binned keys in favour of taper seats or simply friction between the rotating assembly and whatever needs to be rotated being kept in tight contact by the mounting bolt.
Tabs are not the issue, that is a totally false trail.
Td5 has no tabs and you dont hear of them spinning shells or snapping cranks, many truck have not had bearing tabs for many years.
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I stand sort of corrected by both of you.
It seems like they are "preferred" but avoided as they cost a tiny little bit of money.
Feckin bean counters!
Nodge68
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I stand sort of corrected by both of you.
It seems like they are "preferred" but avoided as they cost a tiny little bit of money.
Feckin bean counters!
Indeed.
This issue is however more complex than missing tabs, most likely due to my findings some years ago, where a crank manufacturing issue is to blame.
Having a lovely EN40b steel crank made up will solve the issue for good, and for less than an engine swap.
sierrafery
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Nodge68
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That's too cheap, so it's probably made in China to an unknown standard.
A good EN40b billet crank will cost about £3000 to have made.
sierrafery
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According to the description it's made in Turkey.
TheMunster
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And that crank still won't solve the oil pressure problems. That's what causes the spun bearings over time, the oil pressure is terrible on the entire line of tdv6 engines.
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So my take away from this is:
1/ The problem isn't the crank it's the oil pressure
2/ The problem is there on all the engines but only one of them seems to suffer with it, what, "notoriously"?
So the solution ought to be a more powerful oil pump, or one that delivers a greater volume of oil?
Well maybe or maybe not.
According to this hilarious video!!
For those who can't be assed to watch it, "change your oil pump regularly and get the later one with the reinforcing web."
Still don't really address why only one of the V6s seems to be a worse problem than the others.
So my take away from this is:
1/ The problem isn't the crank it's the oil pressure
2/ The problem is there on all the engines but only one of them seems to suffer with it, what, "notoriously"?
So the solution ought to be a more powerful oil pump, or one that delivers a greater volume of oil?
Well maybe or maybe not.
According to this hilarious video!!
For those who can't be assed to watch it, "change your oil pump regularly and get the later one with the reinforcing web."
Still don't really address why only one of the V6s seems to be a worse problem than the others.
It is as Munster says above, the oil pressure is **** low, in any other engine you would think it was fubar!
I think the wider oil pump is going to create issues of its own.
In a galaxy far far away they made oil pumps that were up to the task, then come cambelt time the heavy handed oaf also know as skywalker the mechanic would over tighten the cambelt tensioner bolt, this would place undue strain on the oil pump casing and it would fail shortly after scrapping the engine.
So using the force they reinforced the oil pump casing with some webbing to stop luke and his wookie fecking it up.
But wait theres more said vader, as the shells would spin wrecking the crank which wrecked the block, people blame the lack of tabs the tabs mean squat, something else fails most likely due to the low oil pressure, then the shells pick up and skywalker gets more work.
Food for thought,
2.7 189bhp, spinny shell time
3.0 245/55 bhp, snappy cranky
3.0 in later rrs 308bhp, not heard of any popping but as the saying goes, the apple does not fall far from the tree.
Nodge68
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There are 2 issues with the crankshaft on these.
Some crankshafts just break, no issue with oil supply at all, a decent replacement crankshaft will solve that issue.
The only oil issues I know about is a delayed oil pressure build up on some engines, but this is normally down to incorrect oil filter installation. Ok I'll admit that having the filter high on the engine isn't ideal, but many other manufacturers put their filters up the top too, and those seldom have bearing issue.
The believe that an amount of bearing failures are down to oscillations of the crankshaft, which just happen to rattle the bearings round in the cap, blocking the oil feed which then causes the bearing to fail.
Some crankshafts just break, no issue with oil supply at all, a decent replacement crankshaft will solve that issue.
The only oil issues I know about is a delayed oil pressure build up on some engines, but this is normally down to incorrect oil filter installation. Ok I'll admit that having the filter high on the engine isn't ideal, but many other manufacturers put their filters up the top too, and those seldom have bearing issue.
The believe that an amount of bearing failures are down to oscillations of the crankshaft, which just happen to rattle the bearings round in the cap, blocking the oil feed which then causes the bearing to fail.
TheMunster
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On the d3 forum a while ago there was a guy from one of the big South Africa LR clubs and they are convinced the cranks get snapped by harmonics like you say. Things like bad pulleys/dampers or out of balance TCs or flex plates. The SA guys also swear by slick50 style treatments in the tdv6 to help with the low pressure on startup.
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