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P38A M51 diesel cooling improvement.

Discussion in 'Range Rover' started by Datatek, Mar 5, 2018.

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  1. Datatek

    Datatek Well-Known Member

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    I was recently contacted by Sam Early from New Zealand for details of my aircon fans mod. He was already running his P38 diesel without the viscous fan using an after market fan and had no problem until he came to tow a boat in hot weather. It gets hot in NZ!

    I thought that the additional cooling from the aircon fans might not be the answer, what was needed was a replacement for the inefficient P38 RAD. Only one half of the RAD gets coolant at full temperature, coolant going down one side and back up the other side. As the rate of heat loss is dependant on the temperature differential between the coolant and the air, only one half of the RAD gives the maximum cooling. Add in the fact that there is a good bit of flow past the baffle straight across the header tank and the RAD is not as effective a it's size would suggest.

    I have looked at a number of different RAD's to put a full flow replacement in but not found anything.

    Sam has come up with the answer, the early GEMS V8 RAD can be squeezed in, it's a tight fit needing the guide bolts loosening. The top hose is a straight fit, it just needs a bit of plumbing to connect the bottom outlet of the RAD. Apparently, even the cowl can be refitted with a bit of trimming if the viscous fan is to be retained.

    I have run with the viscous fan and cowl removed for a few years now without a problem even in hot weather but I've always been aware that cooling is marginal. Changing the RAD gives a much greater margin of safety. It has certainly cured the problem Sam had.

    I will be doing this mod to my P38's in due course.
     
  2. brianp38dse

    brianp38dse Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the info that sounds like the way to go and an easy answer, wonder why landrover never did it like that in the first place.
    Nice to see you popping in from time to time:):):)
     
  3. kapilamuni

    kapilamuni Active Member

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    Quote;
    I have run with the viscous fan and cowl removed for a few years now without a problem even in hot weather ............ unquote,

    hot weather means around 35 C or higher?
     
  4. Datatek

    Datatek Well-Known Member

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    38C three up with luggage up hill in slow moving traffic, no problem. Fans going flat out!
    I have also towed a trailer with a dead P38 on it with the temperature in the mid 20s C, again no problem, but I wouldn't bet on doing that in higher temperatures. Sam has shown that the RAD change will allow high temperature towing.
     
  5. dubbleRR

    dubbleRR Active Member

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    Has any one tryed the all alloy rad on the bay,of,e Its a DIRENZA Its a twin core .;)Think its 50mm diesel and 60mm petrol....
     
  6. Grrrrrr

    Grrrrrr Well-Known Member

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    I've still never had any issues with my viscous fan, even with 3 tons of digger towing behind me. Admittedly this wasn't at 28 degrees celcius. Mud and gunk in the fins won't help, especially if you've been wading in mud.

    Never tried Direnza but interested to hear how you get on.
     
  7. kapilamuni

    kapilamuni Active Member

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    That's tempting. Here the temps are around 30 C but in April it goes up to about 35 C max.
    But in a similar situation like you mentioned, my gearbox would have cried- 'gearbox overheat'-check hand book'.
    Even 1/2 hr in very slow traffic, flat road, it cries.
     
  8. Datatek

    Datatek Well-Known Member

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    If the auto box oil cooler has a fan fitted, it probably is not working. If it doesnt have a fan fitted as on early cars, fit one.
     
  9. Datatek

    Datatek Well-Known Member

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    The Direnza RAD for the P38 is IMO pointless as it still has the flow and return at the top meaning that only half the RAD is fully efficient. The GEMS RAD is half the price.
     
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  10. dubbleRR

    dubbleRR Active Member

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    Fair point ,It look stronger and being all alloy thought it might cool better...But it all comes down to air flow n viscous working at its best..,but if the expansion tank had a water level sensor that would save a lot o diesel heads..:rolleyes::D:D
     
  11. Datatek

    Datatek Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but a water level sensor would not help as long as you do your weekly level checks, it just removes responsibility. Water loss usually occurs as a result of the overheat blowing the water out, unless the RAD or a hose splits, and it is the overheating that causes head failure
     
  12. dubbleRR

    dubbleRR Active Member

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    Aye But what if you lose water on the move .. it would give you time to pull over and save the engine.The gauge.goes up the red light comes on ,the radio gets turned down and at that point its too late:eek:then thought turns to money:D:D:D:D
     
  13. kapilamuni

    kapilamuni Active Member

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    In addition to low efficiency of the radiator, viscous fans inability to do the job at low RPMs is a reason , I think.
    After removing the viscous fan installing a set of electric fans to support the AC fans should help. Seen VW Tourag 3.0 TDI V6, having
    no VC fan but two electric fans.
     
  14. wammers

    wammers STILL BREATHING. Donater

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    Only if the viscous fan is knackered.
     
  15. kapilamuni

    kapilamuni Active Member

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    Thanks Keith.
    Why strictly no 'Lucar ' connectors?
     
  16. Grrrrrr

    Grrrrrr Well-Known Member

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    Corrosion?
     
  17. Datatek

    Datatek Well-Known Member

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    Corrosion, not reliable. Not worth the risk when it comes to a potential overheat.
     
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  18. kapilamuni

    kapilamuni Active Member

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    Mod done without removing VC fan. Found a radiator fan of a diesel BMW 320 - E46 (marked 400W ) with that I intend to replace the VC fan. That demands about 35 A and with full load , (AC fans, blowers, ABS pump,wipers, head lights high beam, fogs etc) will the alternator (105 A VALEO) stand upto it?
    Anyone knows what the wattage under full electrical load?
     
  19. N2O

    N2O Active Member

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    With good viscous fan(genuine) and good clean radiator(60mm thick core) i've never had problems with overheating.
    No electric fan will give more airflow than original 11 blade viscous fan unless it's few kilowats power.
     
  20. kapilamuni

    kapilamuni Active Member

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    Mine is not overheating. That era passed after changing the HG. I don't pull caravans.
    My VC fan is from 300TDI which is a direct fit bought new , genuine about 2 years back.
    The radiator is the one came from the factory yet it's fine.
    I just want to get rid of the habit of eyeing the temp gauge & the feeling that the needle will go to red the next moment.
    In addition to what datatec pointed about the radiator, I noted that the VC fan is not centered on the radiator (on a vertical axis).
    It's more towards the RHS. Should not it be more towards the LHS where hot coolant flowing in.?
     
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