Lost Drive unless Diff Lock engaged....

Hi guys
2 weeks ago I stripped and rebuilt the passenger front corner to replace the worn swivel bearings on my '06 TD5 110.I remember at the time having trouble lining up the (long) half shaft back into the diff and taking extra time to inspect the half shaft splines which were perfect. I also remember when I refitted the drive flange that the hub spun freely until I torqued up the flange bolts and then everything on that corner locked up tight... I put it down to leaving the car in gear and (probably) locking the diff as that's what I was taught to do when jacking up a LR. Anyway I finished up and have driven the car short distances for the last week.
Today my landy lost drive at 60mph without so much as a whisper... no bangs, jolts or grinding metal. No forward/backward drive in low or high. But I did have full drive in low and high if I engaged the diff lock. Quick google in my phone said I should be OK so long as I took it steady so I drove 40 miles at 30mph no dramas/ loud noises of any kind. I found 4 previous posts here on this subject and read them all.
Now I need a plan for diagnosis tomorrow. My knowledge of powertrain is not that good.
1) Assuming the problem was caused by my earlier work I suspect either the drive flange splines or CV joint splines are stripped how do I check without disassembly?
2) Ignoring the other end of the half shaft for a minute How do I check whether its front or rear axle related easily? What should turn manually (ie without engine power) and when?
3) Is there something else I should be checking quickly before I get the spanners out and start swearing/sweating profusely?

SteelMark said:

Hi guys
2 weeks ago I stripped and rebuilt the passenger front corner to replace the worn swivel bearings on my '06 TD5 110.I remember at the time having trouble lining up the (long) half shaft back into the diff and taking extra time to inspect the half shaft splines which were perfect. I also remember when I refitted the drive flange that the hub spun freely until I torqued up the flange bolts and then everything on that corner locked up tight... I put it down to leaving the car in gear and (probably) locking the diff as that's what I was taught to do when jacking up a LR. Anyway I finished up and have driven the car short distances for the last week.
Today my landy lost drive at 60mph without so much as a whisper... no bangs, jolts or grinding metal. No forward/backward drive in low or high. But I did have full drive in low and high if I engaged the diff lock. Quick google in my phone said I should be OK so long as I took it steady so I drove 40 miles at 30mph no dramas/ loud noises of any kind. I found 4 previous posts here on this subject and read them all.
Now I need a plan for diagnosis tomorrow. My knowledge of powertrain is not that good.
1) Assuming the problem was caused by my earlier work I suspect either the drive flange splines or CV joint splines are stripped how do I check without disassembly?
2) Ignoring the other end of the half shaft for a minute How do I check whether its front or rear axle related easily? What should turn manually (ie without engine power) and when?
3) Is there something else I should be checking quickly before I get the spanners out and start swearing/sweating profusely?

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Sounds like a broken half shaft.

With centre diff locked, jack up the wheels one at a time, and try and turn them by hand.

Jack up one wheel at a time, if that wheel spins freely there is your issue, ie it is not connnected to the drive train for some reason.

Simple enough.... I like that. Thanks both, will try tomorrow morning

Ok so bright and early I Jacked both front corners seperately as directed and wheels both ran freely in/out gear and with diff lock on/off. I checked both wheel hubs and the suspect one I was working on does have play between wheel flange and CV spline (about 1/2 a spline's worth). so I figured broke/damaged halfshaft?..... I removed the front prop shaft and absolutely no difference. Cant seem to get it in low or high "normal" drive... only diff lock. I took it down to the local shop because its our only car, and noticed a bit of transmission whine (not sure if it was there before or not..... Ideas?

SteelMark said:

Ok so bright and early I Jacked both front corners seperately as directed and wheels both ran freely in/out gear and with diff lock on/off. I checked both wheel hubs and the suspect one I was working on does have play between wheel flange and CV spline (about 1/2 a spline's worth). so I figured broke/damaged halfshaft?..... I removed the front prop shaft and absolutely no difference. Cant seem to get it in low or high "normal" drive... only diff lock. I took it down to the local shop because its our only car, and noticed a bit of transmission whine (not sure if it was there before or not..... Ideas?

Click to expand...

I think you have misunderstood.

If any wheel rotates freely with the other wheels on the ground, and centre diff locked, there is a problem.
"Play" is not going to cause this issue.

Yeah got that Turboman. I mentioned play because I couldnt carry on trying to deliver power to the front till I fixed that anyway. My point is that even with prop shaft removed... I dont have normal drive...... at least this way I can still drive it around?

SteelMark said:

I removed the front prop shaft and absolutely no difference.

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If you have no front prop you have to lock the center diff or your going nowhere.
Your problem is up front and if you can turn each wheel freely (if it’s the only wheel off the ground) then it maybe front diff problem.

Edit you need center diff locked for these tests.

Suggest you goggle some tube vids on how 4wd and diffs work.

J

SteelMark said:

Yeah got that Turboman. I mentioned play because I couldnt carry on trying to deliver power to the front till I fixed that anyway. My point is that even with prop shaft removed... I dont have normal drive...... at least this way I can still drive it around?

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Like he says^^^^^^^^^. If you lock the centre diff, you can drive around in Rear Wheel Drive only.
It doesn't seem to do any harm, but take it easy.

And the internet and vids on how basic 4wd works are a good idea too.

Oh OK I know nothing about 4WD. I guess I work from the suspect wheel in? Remove hub assy/CVjoint/half shaft/diff??

SteelMark said:

Oh OK I know nothing about 4WD. I guess I work from the suspect wheel in? Remove hub assy/CVjoint/half shaft/diff??

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Personally, I would look first at the wheel I though was most likely to be the problem.
I am not that familiar with your vehicle, but if it is like older ones, you should be able to dissassemble the hub until you can pull out the drive shaft, which should be intact. If it is, try the other side. After that, you will have to move on to the diff itself.

Thanks Turbo. I rebuilt the other side a year ago for a new swivel seal and its fine so I kind of know what I'm doing there. Once I get to the diff I will take pics and revert tomorrow night.

If the diff has gone you should be able to hear it.

Have you pulled the wheels off to check the drive flanges are intact?

Changing a front shaft/CV is fairly involved but not difficult. Just means you have to strip 90% of that side.

Pm me, happy to give you a call and explain it better over the phone

Thanks Bankz... I'm ok up to the diff as I just said. I did the other side a year ago. All my other 4x4s used "electric" to shift 2 to 4WD.... so I left it to a mechanic... I'm retired now so its just me.

I found they seem to handle weird with just rwd, I guess all that raw power!

lynall said:

I found they seem to handle weird with just rwd, I guess all that raw power!

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I use mine for pulling hay trailers and transporting horses.... I will let you know on the raw power difference with 2WD....

SteelMark said:

I use mine for pulling hay trailers and transporting horses.... I will let you know on the raw power difference with 2WD....

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I can see the youtube powerslide videos now

lynall said:

I can see the youtube powerslide videos now

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How to drift a 110 Landy .

J

The center diff lock in the LT230 will (when in 2WD or 'unlocked') spin both output flanges/prop shafts freely. ie if the front wheels are both unweighted the front wheels will turn, if the back wheels are unweighetd the backs will turn. If all 4 wheels are on the ground (weigthed) you will drive off.
If you remove the front prop shaft the front drive flange on the tranfer box will spin and you go no-where (same for the back).
If you lock the diff (ie go into 4WD mode) both flanges will spin, both prop shafts will turn and you will have drive applied to the diffs in the axles.

The diffs in the axels dont 'lock'.

If you lift 1 wheel off the ground (front, back, NS or OS) when you turn it (by hand) it will spin the axles diff and rotate the drive flange and prop shaft. There is a bit of play but you will feel the weight of all of these components moving. If the center diff is unlocked (2WD) it will turn (with a bit of effort). In 4WD you wont be able to turn it as the front axles rotation is 'locked' with the back axle and those wheels are weighted (on the ground).

If you lift both front or back wheels off the ground, engage 4WD (lock the center diff) and you spin a wheel the opposite wheel (on that axle) will turn in the opposite direction.

So Defenders aren't realy 4WD cars. If you unweight 1 front and 1 back wheel they will both spin and the car won't move. In 2WD you lift any 1 wheel off the ground, it will spin and you won't move.

Back to your problem. If you can unweight and spin a wheel and the propshaft doesn't move then either the half shaft/drive to that wheel is broken or the axles diff has failed.

Finally..... I understood every word you said MikTd....until now I did not. Thank you. I placed too much emphasis on the words "locked" and 4WD. My problem is the front differential.