Looking for my perfect series

Hello,
Long time petrolhead, but new member here.
I have always had a soft spot for old rugged land rovers, and after owning a couple of Discoveries over the past decade, my love for old series has grown into a bit of an obsession.
I have finally set out to look for my perfect series to turn this obsession into a reality.
I am looking for a keeper that will hopefully grow with the family and create amazing memories with my young kids too.

After a bit of research around liveability, practicality and looks, I have made the choice to go for a Series III.

Although I want a clean and tidy example, I am not sure my budget would allow me to buy a full nuts and bolts restoration example. Equally, I also like the idea of having some work done on an honest car to make it my own and to my liking; it would probably reinforce the bound and special feeling.

I haven’t made a decision on whether I want a hard top or soft top model. The car won’t be a daily driver, but I would probably use it to commute at least once or twice a week starting in spring (4miles commute - no highway) and to run fun errands, on nice Sunday drives.

I was told by a Landynut friend of mine that I live very close to one of the country well regarded LR specialists (Harry Mayes) and a few other affordable LR specialists. So I have access to quality restoration and affordable craftsmanship.

My budget is around £15-16k all in: either for a well sorted car needing nothing at all - or for a less than perfect car with some money left for work. Is that realistic in a day and age where everything with a classic feel and stick shift seems to be going through the roof?

Are there things I should be aware of before I set out to search for my perfect car?

Thank you in advance for all tips and advice. I know what I am asking sounds like “how long is a piece of string” but hey, that’s the start of the journey.

Hi there, you've made a great choice! I bought a Series 3 SWB petrol 2.5 years ago and have loved every minute. First off, your budget of £15-16k should get you a superb example of a series 3, that has a galvanised chassis and has undergone a quality restoration. Maybe not 'Williams Classics' standard, but very very good. I would recommend going for one that is as original as possible, as these are holding their value best. [I see from your profile you are in London, but if you are in the USA - highways, stick shift - I guess the budget comment is different, as I hear they are much more pricey over there].
In terms of which one to go for, my preference is short wheelbase (SWB) - it is perfectly sized for my family of two adults, two kids and a big dog. Three seats across the front and two pairs of bench seats in the back, making it a seven seater. Mine came with a hard top with van sides. This was fine, but I wanted the flexibility of a soft top, so switched to this. This means you can have it fully closed when it is wet or cold (it is just as warm as a hard top - i.e. not very warm until the engine has warmed up!). You can roll up the sides and back in gooid weather, and for prolonged spells of dry sunny weather, you can take the whole roof off fairly easily - take around half an hour. Driving the lanes in a full open land rover is brilliant fun - I guarantee everyone who travels this way will have a smile on their face!
Your short commute on local roads will be absolutely fine in a Series 3. I would recommend having an overdrive and freewheeling hubs if you can find them. It is always tricky to find an example which has everything you want, but as you say, you can modify it to suit your needs.
Probably enough for now, but let us know how you get on. I am sure others will provide their views too, which may or may not match mine.
Good luck with the search.

Will it be living outside or in a garage? If in garage, make sure there is enough headroom to get it in. If outside, a hardtop makes more sense. A short wheel base has a lot less room than you think.


Col

Thank you both so much for your comments.
The car would be sleeping outside as I already have 2 sports cars in my garage. If my wife lets me kick her XC90 out of the carport, it might be covered, but I wouldn’t count on it at this stage. Interesting to hear that there isn’t that much difference in cabin temperature between hard & soft top. What about road noise?

I am thinking SWB as I like the proportion of that car the best and it also takes less space.

After strolling in a few websites, I found this car which seems in pretty good knicks and from what looks like a reputable specialist:

https://www.johnbrown4x4.com/product/land-rover-series-3-tax-and-mot-exempt-station-wagon-mld/

It’s at the top of my budget but seems quite original and is a “station wagon” model (not sure what that means).

On the other hand a friend of mine bought his series 2A two years ago with galvanised chassis and a 200tdi engine conversion for less than £7k... making the word “value” quite difficult to understand for the untrained eye.

Like all classic cars it is literally a minefield, and in your shoes I would not even consider one unless you get it inspected first, even if that inspection is just from an ehthusiast, it is not unknown for less reputable dealers to slap some shiny paint on an old dog and ask top dollar for it.
Look then look some more, then think about it then look some more, there are literally thousands of the bloody things out there, so if seller says he has others coming to see it, let them have it!

Sation wagon basically means seats in back, some extra trim inside, but the most obvious feature is the safari roof, ie the double skinned bit with vents to the inside, if you read the description it says what extras the sw version has.

I reckon 15k would get you a very nice series 2, join the s2 forum, s2s have no silly plastic dash to go manky/warp/crack/peel.

Road noise in a hard top can be horrific at higher speeds.

Thanks for your comment Lynall. I had discounted series 2 as I was told they’re a little less easy to live with and the series 3 gearbox was a nice upgrade. May be I should go and try a series 2 for myself and make a call then.
As
For your comment on noise level - is the soft top quieter than the hardtop?
Thank you

I agree, your budget would also get you a really good series 2. I also agree that the pricing of series vehicles is a minefield. It really is all over the place. A good call to get a specialist to look over the one you think is a good buy. Series 2s tend to be more expensive than series 3s, all other things being equal. As the other poster says, a big difference is the metal versus plastic dash. Syncromesh gearbox on the s3 is welcome, but worth you trying the s2 and seeing how you get on with it. Always best not to buy the first one you see. Perhaps go and see, and drive, the John Brown SW and then you can compare others with that?
Lots to think about - a key area that you are probably aware of is to ensure that the chassis and bulkhead are rust free - they should be excellent for the money you are paying.

rivarama said:

Thank you both so much for your comments.
The car would be sleeping outside as I already have 2 sports cars in my garage. If my wife lets me kick her XC90 out of the carport, it might be covered, but I wouldn’t count on it at this stage. Interesting to hear that there isn’t that much difference in cabin temperature between hard & soft top. What about road noise?

I am thinking SWB as I like the proportion of that car the best and it also takes less space.

After strolling in a few websites, I found this car which seems in pretty good knicks and from what looks like a reputable specialist:

https://www.johnbrown4x4.com/product/land-rover-series-3-tax-and-mot-exempt-station-wagon-mld/

It’s at the top of my budget but seems quite original and is a “station wagon” model (not sure what that means).

On the other hand a friend of mine bought his series 2A two years ago with galvanised chassis and a 200tdi engine conversion for less than £7k... making the word “value” quite difficult to understand for the untrained eye.

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That looks stunning, nice to have a safari top and an overdrive

Hard top and soft top can both be bad for noise, just different sorts.
Once you've driven a series 2 with no synchro on first or second, you soon get used to it

The S3 you've linked to does indeed look really nice ....

I am however curious as to why there are no pictures of the underside, and also why there is no mention of the chassis or bulkhead condition ? As mentioned above, these are the critical areas - and, especially if you can't do the work yourself, could turn the thing into a complete money pit ....

For your budget, I'd be insisting on galv chassis AND galv bulkhead.

A S2 / S2a without (full) synchro would be fine for pottering about - but not quite as nice in traffic - depends on your intended use - I agree completely with the advice already given - drive one and see how you get on

FWH are a double edge sword which aren't worth it IMO - when you need 4WD, you'll have to get out and engage the damn things - meanwhile you're stuck / sliding / etc. And spinning the front axle all the time spreads the oil all over everything, so worth doing

Also - keep it inside - any modern eurobox POS will be relatively water proof ( and won't last long enough for rust to be a problem anyway ), so the LR goes inside

rivarama said:

Thanks for your comment Lynall. I had discounted series 2 as I was told they’re a little less easy to live with and the series 3 gearbox was a nice upgrade. May be I should go and try a series 2 for myself and make a call then.
As
For your comment on noise level - is the soft top quieter than the hardtop?
Thank you

Click to expand...

Only real difference mechanically s2 vs s3 is the gearbox having no synchros on two lower gears, first is irrelevant as only really used for setting off, but second gear can be annoying as just about every turn/roundabout/slow down will mean you need to drop into second gear, even after 10 yrs this ****es me off at times, but that is mainly as I am always in a rush!

No idea on soft top noise as mine has always been a hard top, the problem seems to be there is nothing inside the cars bare body, which is basically a tin box to dampen/absorb the noise, in fact when I once measured the noise with decibel meter, the noise decreased as I opened the window!

A series 2 swb with a soft top is a joy to look at, like a series 1 they just look so right.

Like I said further up, well worth the 20 quid and join the s2 forum/club, 4 mags per year/cars for sale/wealth of knowledge, and also lots of s3 owners as there is no decent forum dedicated for the s3.

S3 have been pretty much ignored by the land rover community for ever, and even now they stll are not loved like the 1 and 2 models.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Land-Rover-2-25-Diesel-/184613927804?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292

Looks tidy...

Another one to consider....https://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/land+rover/series+2/aetv13052319
Not a galvanised chassis, but you can have this checked out. The refurbishment has been done by a well known chap who is active on Insta. The paintwork is pretty original rather than a respray. As another poster said, be careful of a freshly painted land rover - make sure they have given as much attention underneath as up top! This one looks like it is well sorted, and not too far from London. From my experience searching, it is impossible to find the car that exactly meets your wish list, within budget and less than 200 miles away! With the paintwork, be aware that if you buy a car with perfect paintwork, you will restrict the number of green lanes you can drive down, as so many of them are overgrown and scratchy. I have added a fair few scratches to my paintwork, but green laning is one of the joys of series land rover ownership. Just buy an OS map and explore...

I resprayed mine, worst thing i ever did and regretted it ever since. It was just before the 2s started to gain real interest

Thank you for the great advice. i do like the look of the S2a, but the “like 4 like” premium over the S3 seems quite significant.
Also, living within the M25, I sometimes hit a little bit of traffic, and I feel the S2 might be a little harder to live with. As many of you said, I will need to test drive an S2 and see whether I should also consider that instead on focusing on S3s alone.
I see that the link Marmaduke sent me is diesel powered. I was told to stay away from Diesel engine as way too overpowered (bordering dangerously slow when taken on busy roads). And they were a lot rougher than the petrol engines. Any thoughts on that?
Thank you

rivarama said:

And they were a lot rougher than the petrol engines. Any thoughts on that?

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I passed my test in a S2a petrol .... and then we had a S3 diesel for quite a few years - IMHO, the petrol is way nicer to drive - quieter, way less NVH ..... a well sorted petrol is lovely - but neither are going to impress with performance compared to a eurobox - again drive both and see which you prefer

My preference would be the V8, (Oh yes ) then the 2.25 petrol ..... the 2.25 diesel would be last on the list.

Just for context, my daily driver is a heavily tuned 300Tdi D1 Auto, and, full disclosure, I'm something of a compression ignition fan ... but not in a series

Interesting auction about to start on carandclassics... was fitted with a V8 engine. Doesn’t seem to have been received a galvanised chassis / bulkhead

https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/auctions/1963-land-rover-series-iia-N8jwvg

rivarama said:

Thank you for the great advice. i do like the look of the S2a, but the “like 4 like” premium over the S3 seems quite significant.
Also, living within the M25, I sometimes hit a little bit of traffic, and I feel the S2 might be a little harder to live with. As many of you said, I will need to test drive an S2 and see whether I should also consider that instead on focusing on S3s alone.
I see that the link Marmaduke sent me is diesel powered. I was told to stay away from Diesel engine as way too overpowered (bordering dangerously slow when taken on busy roads). And they were a lot rougher than the petrol engines. Any thoughts on that?
Thank you

Click to expand...

The diesels are slow, and that is being polite, okay around town and on the flat, the 4cyl petrols are no powerhouse either.
You might find emssions becoming an issue in the future?
They are all difficult to drive compared to any modernish car, they are also dead skinny and can get through the smallest gaps.

Diesels are slower and noisier but get better mpg, not enough to justify it in this day and age though. When an old diesel starts to play up, it's much worse than a petrol to fix. A series diesel only makes any sense if most of its work is off road. I'm not sure if I've read all the posts on this thread, has anyone mentioned the fact that a long wheelbase has less steering lock than a shortie. Mine is a pain in the rear to park in tight spots.

Col

Petrol is your best bet, for all reasons above. You will also have a chance of adjusting the petrol yourself if it is not running well. I understand diesels are harder to adjust for the home mechanic. Re emissions, I understand petrol cars may be exempt from certain low emission zones in cities, including London, with diesel seen as the new enemy of the state.....