L322 L322 Gearbox 3.0TD

Hey guys,

It's been a while. So here is the deal. My gearbox is started to give up on me. Here is a scenario:

I drove to my friends house night before and randomly when I wanted to reverse the gear did not engage but after restarting the car it was okay. I drove home that night no problems what so ever. The next day I drove about 5 miles and I get TRANS FAILSAFE PROG on the dash then the gearbox goes funny. When I stopped at a set of lights when I started to accelerate it was moving very slowly of the line (I presume reason being in failsafe mode). I got to where I needed to go and once the car has cooled down I drove normally about 1 mile to my garage to leave the car there.

Plugged in the computer I got error 55 saying something to do with gear 5. I don't think it was the most reliable diagnostic reading anyway.

I had a friend who recently done a similar gearbox and he said that the clutch basket is lose and when the car gets warm and the gearbox obviously metal expands and the clutch plates are not pressed together correctly.

Anyways I got the old gearbox from that BMW to take apart and play with. I got Sonnax round the corner so parts are local.

Questions:

1) I'm ordering refurbished gearbox to change it on Saturday. Do I need to do any programming after the box is changed?

2) Do I buy one with a refurbed TQ too since I never really had a problem with the gearbox and it wasn't driven to its death. I had the oil and filter change with cooler flush done few K miles ago there was no debris on the plug nor in the oil. I don't think my problem is to do with anything with TQ or valve block.

Prompt responses would be appropriate.

I will fix the old gearbox regardless and sell it and will become proficient in rebuilding them.

I will update the:
Range Rover L322 Project Thread Mods'n'Fixes

Later.

J

Personally, I'd replace the TQ while you have the box out....if you are unsure of its history, for the sake of a another couple hundred quid or so, peace of mind etc.

Thanks Saint.

Yes I know its convenient when the box is out but I am not a fan of replacing things that are not faulty.
I will look to get one with as I think then they will be in that reconditioned sync.

So the TQ is welded shut as far as I know. To refurb it you have to cut it open then fix the bits and bobs inside then weld it back together and balance it I assume?

Any programming required after new box is fitted or is it plug and play?

Yep TQ is welded and the rebuild is best left to those with the gear.

The box should be plug n play, but the ECU will need to re-learn the change adaptions. The ECU learns the shift patterns of the box over time, i.e. how much modulation to give the valves to ensure smooth shift etc.....it would be best to reset the gearbox adaptions on fitment of a new box, but not strictly necessary, so expect the shifts to be jerky for a while as the ECU learns the particulars of the new box.

So today I took the car out for extended test drive and I got some good results.
I wanted to fetch a box online but the dude is having a laugh simply he is advertising a box for £895 of course I'm not hoping that that price would include the TQ but then I call him and he tells me that even the valve block is not supplied and then he quoted me £2.5k - JOKER.

My gearbox is in a very alright condition and from what I have figured out today is that only my valve block is at fault. Tomorrow the valve block is getting stripped out of the box. I have a Sonnax authorized dealer 10 minutes from where I live so I will order the vacuum tester and the necessary tools to carry out the upgrade of the block with new valves, springs and what have you!

So since the last time I had the box gone into the 5th gear failsafe mode I did struggle to get it to that mode today. It took about 30 minutes of abuse to get it to trip.

When I was driving on flat surfaces there was no go the box kept going normal. Only half an hour and going multiple times up quite big hills is started to dance with me.
Then after that it would trip over a sizable gradient.

Here is something that made me conclude that it has something to do with the pressure with the valve block. Whenever it was tripped up into limp mode I could just stop and restart the car and it would drive normally which does exclude permanent mechanical failure.

I was driving around with a 'co-pilot' and we were monitoring the parameters of the gearbox.

So everytime when I had the TRANS. FAILSAFE. PROG a different DTC would pop up I guess whatever was going out of sync first due to the valve block leaking pressure.



So the DTCs were all over the place.

The parameters I was looking at while driving were:

Gearbox ratio, line pressure solenoid 2,3,5, gearbox oil temperature, output speed, shift solenoid 1,2,3 (to check what happens when car is coasting and engine breaking), system pressure, torque converter clutch and turbine speed.

My max oil temperature was 85 degrees - If someone could confirm what the are the benchmark values that would be great.

So while gearbox was operating correctly things look more or less like that:



Line pressure solenoids stayed at 780 mA, shift solenoids were switching nicely ON/OFF depending on change 1-2,2-3,3-4,4-5 etc.

And here is what I noticed when the TRANS. FAILSAFE PROG. kicked in:



System pressure and torque converter clutch had two different values 675 mA which was variable as we drove and 780 mA in TCC.



When the failure occurred and we finally get the bong both TCC and system pressure is equal value of 780 mA.

When I performed stops when the errors came up and limp mode kicked in and the 5th gear was dragging the car forward I was at a flat surface and all it took to get the car going again was to erase the DTCs and until I hit a gradient and let the car struggle the car would go as normal.

My best guess at the moment is that the block is not holding the pressure when things require a bit more umffff.

So this is on order:



As I suspect that I will do check like this on the block and it will reveal the winner but most likely I will just rebuild the entire block with uprated parts.



Building on this I already managed to get some old 5L40 boxes to strip and study so might take that on as a more permanent task in the future.

Any thoughts are welcome.

The big issue on the GM5 box was the valve block was made of stupidly soft material....the spool valves as the move wear the bores dumping material into the oil. The oil then gets contaminated with crud and becomes like a grinding paste which wears the valve block bores even moreso.

The cycle repeats and the pressures in the block start reducing causing shifting issues and then failsafe.....

Only real cure is a Sonnax valve block.

So this morning RR is on the ramp and wishful thinking was to take the sump off and hope for the best and so we did but hobby craft seemed to visit my gearbox giving it a good glitter quantities.

I am taking the entire box out to check what has happened!

Keep you posted soon.

Glitter in the fluid is a sign the box is on its last legs......

If you are lucky it is just from the valve block, if you are unlucky it is from the drive clutch packs and bearings....

Use a magnet, valve block is aluminium drive clutches are steel....

You will always get a bit of iron filings in the oil but if you find that a good majority of what is in the oil sticks to the magnet the box internals are on there way out.

Exciting stuff tho! I don't mind the box being dead. What I mind is paying almost 3k to someone who will change everything for me. It drives like a dream still just sometimes I get TRANS. FAILSAFE PROG. But I figured early detection can be beneficial for the parts spend. I got a place in the world where I can get a recon TQ for a £100 so might change that too. She will live its not the end of the world now is it? If things will go completely wrong I will just sell it.

bitnix said:

My best guess at the moment is that the block is not holding the pressure when things require a bit more umffff.

So this is on order:

As I suspect that I will do check like this on the block and it will reveal the winner but most likely I will just rebuild the entire block with uprated parts.

Click to expand...

Do you already have a vacuum pump? If not, just to point out that Sonnax recommend at least a 3cfm unit. I use a Robinair Cooltech 15401 (4cfm) which has a 1/3hp motor and seems to do the job very well. The pumps aren’t always that easy to source in the UK as they’re mainly used in the USA, for air conditioning systems.



Phil

MOTD:

So this will be rather picture heavy but should be pretty good.



So we started with an oil drain as you do but then the sump revealed that my gearbox has been to a rather sleazy strip club...





We let the oil drip and took the filter out.

Then since I never really took the box out I started to strip the bits out to get to it starting with the shafts.


Shaft out along with the exhaust shield.


I cleaned the sump I wish it was like that when I took it out in the first place.
Then got onto removing the valve block along with the harness.





Got the support out.

Then without boring you with all the usual gearbox stand, jiggling action and unbolting dead weight there was nothing major. If you take it out just remember to unbolt the TQ from the engine. If you can't see the bolts rotate the TQ.


There she is.
So now the RR is disabled with its legs unplugged ready to be towed to its resting place for a while.


So I got another BMW 3L diesel gearbox is slightly different like of course the output shaft is different and the gear selector is on the other side but other than that it shouldn't differ much and it will do as a good practice gearbox.



That's the other box with my transfer box in the background.
TQ out.


Working tops down was more comfortable.


Bell housing and pump assy out:

Back to the box.


Direct/reverse clutch assy and coast/forward clutch assy out.

Gearbox view.



Forward sprag, direct drum & shaft assy + overdrive clutch hub & intermediate sprag assy.

With the next bonkers circlip I decided to call it a day as I don't have the tool to undo that clip and I managed to take half of it out with alternate tools but tomorrow Machine Mart will be open and I will get this:



That should do the job.

Now onto diagnosing the parts I've taken out.

Direct and reverse clutch assy diag:



The plates all seem in okay condition but being there for 14 years I'm sure they are much thinner than usual. If anyone had info on how think is an acceptable plate it would be great. Otherwise I don't think it will be that expensive to replace these just in case.
Then quick trick of zip-tie all the plates together in the right order to come back to it later.

Things get more interesting getting into the forward coast/clutch assembly. Things seemed to got hot there.

I haven't fully worked out what the mad spring mech does but I assume it just keeps the pressure on the plates whenever it needs to do that.

The free wheel coast parts have temperature on them but no visible/severe mechanical wear so that still does not explain plenty of filings.
Got the plates out:

Then you can clearly see that the clutch plates had it.

The wear is not so severe and possibly okay to reuse on the casing.

Side by side it just looks obvious that there was slipping which was kind of confirmed by the symptoms and computer diagnostics. The oil temp readout was max 85 degrees so clearly that is not a very great temperature. But on the other hand wherever the sensor is and where that friction happened is two different places and they can be worlds away when it comes to operating temp.

So these clutch plates are added to the shopping list.
Next I started to move onto the oil pump.



When opened there was a lot of glitter in there but the pump is aluminium and the filings were clearly sticking to the magnet so the pump is not the cause of the glitter. But the picture above shows signs of wear.

Taking the rest of components out they do seem to have some minor wear but I don't think we had issue with the main pump pressure.

The pump slide has some wear on the inner side but I can get a aftermarket one with 17.968mm. So I need to measure my part to see if it is same height but it the aftermarket is taller than I can probably shave that aluminium wear on the pump on the lathe to level it out.

So that was end of day with the TQ dripping slowly.



I attached a PDF of the parts available.

Bemble aka RRPhil. An honor to have you in my post looking at my attempt to fix my box.

I know it is hard to get the parts to test the block locally but I happen to live 17 miles away from a shop called the Automatic Choice who are official Sonnax distributor in UK. And as a matter of fact I just found another shop also 17 miles away called JPAT who also are official Sonnax distributor. From what I gathered there is only 4 official distributors in UK. And I know I can get this all ordered online but I can go get it within 30 minutes of my house.

Bemble / Saint do you know any other sources for parts?

So yeah long story short I do not have the pump yet. Where is the best place to get one?

How about this?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Professio...302352?hash=item4adada09d0:g:~KQAAOSwZ8ZW4400

Was going to suggest JPAT or Sussex Autos as reputable and recommended parts suppliers.

The legend that is RRPhil/Bemble is the de facto genius on the L322 boxes....more of a ZF man, but he has stripped the GM5 too....maybe he has the info on clutch plate thickness you require.

Bloody good job you are doing there bud.....Reading all this with great interest.

Thanks Saint. I wish the quality would be a little bit better. I am happy to be the part of LZ and I just want to give something back. It can be overwhelming at first but then you just get on with it. I can easily pay for the box to be rebuilt and just drop of the car to a garage but I think first it is a rip off where you need to pay 3k to get the car back on the road. I understand a 2013/14 RR but 2002 I don't think so! So I say veto and we going to war with the box. If it doesn't work out I will throw the towel in but not very easily.

I think I will be able to do most part of the box myself including the valve block upgrades. TQ on the other hand is just too much considering the amount of tools you need to bond it back together, weld it, balance it.

To be honest I did design a little rig to cut it in a straight line and have a very old wheel balancing device all manual with the gauge in the middle which would probably do the job. Would need to make some kind of welding rig to get the converter spinning and welded nicely. As I said another world for now since I can get a refurbed unit for around £100 without P&P.

Apparently the russians have a machine which empties TQ of oil without cutting a thing.

Check this out:

http://www.kinergo.eu/products/obgt/

In terms of suppliers JPAT, Sussex Autos, Automatic Choice and Vanmatic seem to be the Sonnax places to go in UK.

If you were able to get the weld on your old torque converter turned off so that you could get it apart you would hopefully be able to confirm (in all likelihood) that it’s the torque converter lock-up clutch friction plate that has generated the majority of the metallic debris :
http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/x5-e53-forum/82777-gm-5l40-e-teardown.html

Phil

I will get into it eventually. It will get replaced because rest of the gearbox is almost hospital ward like so most likely it will be that. Hopefully it will be back on the road some day

Thanks for all the input guys!

I feel your pain ........mines in being done now

I don't feel pain but excitement! My wallet won't hurt as much either. By simply shifting the gearbox out that saved me the £300. Oil cooler replacement is easy too and part is 50% cheaper online than from the gearbox specialist so that's another £100 saved roughly. Then they no longer diagnose the boxes really they just go new TQ (lets say £300) new valve block (lets say £400-£500) and say some clutch plates and then the bill hits you at 3k - no thank you. And on top of that they keep your parts to make even more money. Its a goldmine for them really. But I don't blame them they all need to pay bills Me and my father have too many tools and garages to throw in the towel!