Kalihari wheels locking in the snow

2003 3 door, 1.8 kalahari.

When breaking on snow, regardless of speed the wheels just lock and the car slides to a halt. As you can imagine very dangerous and extremely frightening when you have no control of the car. According to most reports the Freelander should be excelling in this weather.

Can anyone give me any pointers as to why this is happening? ABS? VCU? Drive shaft? Something else?

The driver :behindsofa:

haha. Harsh!

It's actually the girlfriends car. I have however tested it and it does genuinely lock on when the car starts to skid. I assumed the 4 wheel drive system was supposed to deal with the skidding.

But that's probably a separate issue from the wheels locking.

Peco said:

haha. Harsh!

It's actually the girlfriends car. I have however tested it and it does genuinely lock on when the car starts to skid. I assumed the 4 wheel drive system was supposed to deal with the skidding.

But that's probably a separate issue from the wheels locking.

Click to expand...

clues in the name.4 wheel DRIVE is responsible for drive.Jack **** to do with braking.

Peco said:

haha. Harsh!

It's actually the girlfriends car. I have however tested it and it does genuinely lock on when the car starts to skid. I assumed the 4 wheel drive system was supposed to deal with the skidding.

But that's probably a separate issue from the wheels locking.

Click to expand...

Harsh but ..........

Surely alot depends on how hard ya brake??

Braking in the snow/ice not a good idea.
Drive slower think ahead, change down gears gently all the way to first, then and only then even consider braking

u checked the pads? dont trust me as i know fook all but i know we had cheap pads in a transit a while ago and every time it got cold or rained u daren't touch the brakes through fear of um lockin

ABS only works when it believes that the vehicle is still in motion by relating the sensor reading against eachother

If all 4 wheels loose traction it can believe that it is actually standing stiil.
However,
this would be rare and some pre-warning should occur with action of the ABS

I can actually replicate this by braking damned hard on ice, but that would not be correct procedure for driving in these conditions.
As mentioned - careful measured driving with absolute minimal application of brakes is what is required in these current conditions
No harsh maneuvres of any kind.

There is a video on Youtube of a RangeRover Sport with low profile "road" tyres on trying to drive on what can be best described as slurry.
The whole traction control system is completely fooled into thinking that it is driving normally because all 4 wheels have lost traction, so the TC doesn't kick in and all wheels are just spinning up on the mud.

So,
either your ABS isn't working at all (any dash lights on at any time?)
or,
the pair of you need to address your driving technique


This may sound harsh, but I wouldn't want anyone slamming into my kids coz they drive like a loon.

The ABS still pumps away as we can feel it in the pedal and no warning lights come on.

The brake pads and discs are new on last year.

At the end of our street there is a small hill turning to the left which comes to a T Junction and requires us to stop. Yesterday driving in first gear going really slow and tapping the break resulted in a 5 yard slide, foot off the brake it didn't release, back on and off and again it still didn't "unlock", the pavement is the only thing that stopped the car. It's just lucky there were no cars or pedestrians around.

I think there's a problem with the brake or the brake drum or something drum related (guessing). I will book it in to the garage for someone to have a look.

Thank you all for your responses.

The wheels shouldn't completely lock up. Though, if you have lost all traction, it may still feel as though they're locking up. If you feel a vibration on the brake pedal, this is a sign that the ABS is trying to do its job. Whether or not ABS will succeed, is circumstantial on the conditions. While ABS is a great technology, it's not bullet proof. When ABS is working the wheels should slow down momentarily and then start rolling again, followed by rapid repetitions. The idea is to allow your tyres to make the best use of any available traction. Thus, it will often help prevent you from entering a skid. (traction = friction between two surfaces) But obviously if there's no traction at all, ABS will be of little help.

If there is a problem with the ABS system, the warning light on the dash will illuminate permanently under normal situations. However, If you're certain that ABS is not functional at all, then you should use a manual braking technique. To do this, you must apply rapid pressure to the brakes repeatedly. (Pressure on/off) By rapid, I'm not suggesting that you must brake hard. Only the person behind the wheel can judge how much pressure should be required in order to brake effectively while maintaining full control of the car, because every situation is different. It is worth pointing out that you must not do this if you have ABS. (I.e. if it's not disabled) Doing so will interfere with the job of your ABS and will increase your likelihood of losing control of the vehicle.

You should also test your Hill Descent Control. You can do this while descending down any steep hill, even during normal weather conditions and on normal terrain. HDC is an extension of the ABS system. If HDC doesn't work, then you know something isn't right with the system.

You may find the following video clip to be of interest, as it shows ABS along with Traction Control in action.
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wR1SSxpKitE"]YouTube - Fifth Gear ABS, TC, ESP Full version[/nomedia]


Rich

Hill descent definitely works so we're going to start using that at the end of the road. Missus tells me the traction control light kicks in occasionally when she's going up hill in the snow so it looks like that is working fine too.

This is a great post and the info on how abs really works it a great help as is the heads up of how ABS works and won't work if you tap the brake which I knew but assumed the girlfriend would also know.

Thanks for taking the time to post. I'll post back if it happens again and any action we took during it. Cheers.

When first turning on the ignition, so the electrics are powered, do you get the yellow abs lamp light? Some people take these out if there's a fault when selling the car.

sounds like brake snatch problim to me [master cylinder not returning quick enough if all brakes] if just rear [hand brake cable Bob Marl-ying] just wun brake then brake cylinder piston fooked . . . . . .

I tend to think it is just the current conditions and lack of experience

With great care I've been down the country track from my place today
and out onto the main road into the village

The type of wet snow/underlying ice that seems to prevail at the moment is extremely slippery and the vehicle will still tend to slip about and even slide under braking.

I came across 3 numpties in the space of one mile
The first cut a corner at speed and went straight on into the hedgerow
The second slid straight out of thier driveway onto the main road - sideways !
And the third came up quick behind me, then flashed his lights, got too close for my comfort -
- so I tapped the brake and then pulled away a bit -
- watched in my mirror as he spun out behind ..... idiot !

Mark2 said:

I tend to think it is just the current conditions and lack of experience

With great care I've been down the country track from my place today
and out onto the main road into the village

The type of wet snow/underlying ice that seems to prevail at the moment is extremely slippery and the vehicle will still tend to slip about and even slide under braking.

I came across 3 numpties in the space of one mile
The first cut a corner at speed and went straight on into the hedgerow
The second slid straight out of thier driveway onto the main road - sideways !
And the third came up quick behind me, then flashed his lights, got too close for my comfort -
- so I tapped the brake and then pulled away a bit -
- watched in my mirror as he spun out behind ..... idiot !

Click to expand...

yep alot about at the moment. Using the brakes is a mistake in these conditions. USE THE GEARS!
However slidding off all the pedals makes me think theres a problem.

ming said:

sounds like brake snatch problim to me [master cylinder not returning quick enough if all brakes] if just rear [hand brake cable Bob Marl-ying] just wun brake then brake cylinder piston fooked . . . . . .

Click to expand...

Don't understand the joke here?

Sings...


"I'm Jammin'...."

Cheers

Blippie

Hippo said:

When first turning on the ignition, so the electrics are powered, do you get the yellow abs lamp light? Some people take these out if there's a fault when selling the car.

Click to expand...

Checked it this morning and it does come on when turning the key. Cheers for the heads up though.