Junior drivers

I see the point that if youre on a pnp then you "could" be allowed to drive without a license.

however it simply aint going to work, and any self respecting pnp firm arent going to allow non licensed drivers.

pnps can get quite busy, and if the driver has a license it's one way of filtering who comes in. same goes for insurance docs etc. also, public liability insurance needs satisfying.

in an ideal world then i'd say yes ok, but it isnt really worth the hassle. especially cos pnp terrain isnt the easiest to drive!

there will always be a small number of people who allow there sons to have a bit of a drive around in a remote corner of a pnp site, and i say fair enough if you're not getting close to anyone else and the terrian is responsible, but any more than that and it's just not fair on the other owners who've got 5 grand in their trucks and dont want to have someone run into them.

hopefully that never happens to me. i do hate them rough pnp sites though - stay away from discos missing rear windows!

cheers.

Some clubs run Junior Trails Controlled place, fully allowed ect ect. PM jai_landrover, He knows a fair bit about it.

On the subject of P&P's ect, alot of people go to them with untaxed, Uninsured, Un-Moted Motors. Problem is the scrapper SJ's and knob heads driving them because they could not give a **** if they roll em

Ryder lets his son drive his Disco round there local play and pay, from the videos i have seen they are very sensible and not doing stupid stuff. Why should his Son suffer because of knob heads. Tale of a few dickheads ruining it for others. As per usual! Same with the lanes....

I have used Foxham and Minety pay and play sites down by Chippenham, Wiltshire. Both allowed vehicles which weren't road legal and also underage drivers. Foxham didn't allow young drivers to go up the steep slopes though. I haven't used either for a couple of years so it's possible they may have changed their rules.

Mseries3 said:

Some clubs run Junior Trails Controlled place, fully allowed ect ect. PM jai_landrover, He knows a fair bit about it.

On the subject of P&P's ect, alot of people go to them with untaxed, Uninsured, Un-Moted Motors. Problem is the scrapper SJ's and knob heads driving them because they could not give a **** if they roll em

Ryder lets his son drive his Disco round there local play and pay, from the videos i have seen they are very sensible and not doing stupid stuff. Why should his Son suffer because of knob heads. Tale of a few dickheads ruining it for others. As per usual! Same with the lanes....

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I think you put it into words more precisely than me. I do think the car should be safe and an MOT is good to prove that so I think cars should have an MOT. People often don't realise that we do work for our trucks too. I haven't just been given it, If I break it, I fix it. That's what people forget.

The worst I have ever seen is someone who was just given a suzuki. I don't need to explain, you can see my point. I thought he was going to have a real crash with the way he was accelerating down hills and generally doing things that anyone can see are not the correct ways. I definitely made sure to keep my distance but he seemed to be following me so I went all the way out to the entrance and then turned around so he couldn't follow me. I didn't feel like having someone plough into the back of me so I understand how you feel seeing someone being like that without proper docs. The scary thing was, he could drive.

AWDC Trials - Tyro class

Hi Guys Thanks for the latest comments and advice, now were rockin, with a more solid picture of what I was looking for .

Cheers All.

The main problem isn't whether it crosses the line on legality or not. Its that pay & play site owners invariably take out public liability insurance, to cover their arses should the worst happen. (It might be a condition of the lease, or mortgage, or whatever). The insurance company will probably impose conditions, one of these might be that all vehicles are road-legal, ie taxed, tested, have current insurance and so it follows that to be valid, a licenced driver.

It might be possible to get public liability insurance for non-lic holders and specials (ie off road only vehicles) but I bet its higher - and this would push up the entry price for everyone, not just those who don't have a driving licence.

AWDC and other clubs can circumvent this because they can hire a site and use their own public liability insurance. Because it has a well-established structure and a set of rules and regulations, and because its a member's club, they can do it.

I agree, thats why discovery owners club is a member of the MSA, so that they can be under their wing should the worst happen. Allows them to hold competitions etc and be fully covered. Obv you have to be member.

Pay and play days cannot do the same cos they have no idea who's who!

without bothering to read all this, dont we all have to start somewhere? be it at 14 or 30?

lr110 said:

without bothering to read all this, dont we all have to start somewhere? be it at 14 or 30?

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Yep - they can start at learning off roading once they have their Full UK licence, ie age 17 + however long it takes to do lessons and pass their driving test. Off road driving is safer in some ways but more dangerous in most ways, than driving on the roads. Plenty of pay & play sites have features that can be dangerous for the new driver, eg cliffs to drop off, trees to hit, slopes and undulations which can tip you over, never minding the possibility of getting stuck and then the requirement to coordinate things at the same time, and in close proximity to, another vehicle which is recovering you. I think the danger to other cars has been a little overstated, they're normally spaced out and there's no real danger of collision with another car, except maybe during recoveries.

WTF?

Many off road sites allow under age drivers. My 11 year old drives regularly at Whaddon...

It is my understanding that he is able to compete in club events at 14... and junior events (JTA) at 8.

Incidentally... the 11 year old DOES hold an MSA driving license.

Ryder said:

WTF?

Many off road sites allow under age drivers. My 11 year old drives regularly at Whaddon...

It is my understanding that he is able to compete in club events at 14... and junior events (JTA) at 8.

Incidentally... the 11 year old DOES hold an MSA driving license.

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True. That's what I'm trying to say but nobody cares.

Mseries3 said:

Some clubs run Junior Trails Controlled place, fully allowed ect ect. PM jai_landrover, He knows a fair bit about it.

On the subject of P&P's ect, alot of people go to them with untaxed, Uninsured, Un-Moted Motors. Problem is the scrapper SJ's and knob heads driving them because they could not give a **** if they roll em

Ryder lets his son drive his Disco round there local play and pay, from the videos i have seen they are very sensible and not doing stupid stuff. Why should his Son suffer because of knob heads. Tale of a few dickheads ruining it for others. As per usual! Same with the lanes....

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Thanks for the support.

Bloody hell. If we... as 4x4 enthusiasts start trying to discourage the youngsters from trying... what hell becomes of our sport?

Ryder said:

Bloody hell. If we... as 4x4 enthusiasts start trying to discourage the youngsters from trying... what hell becomes of our sport?

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At last, the sort of guy I joined this site for.

I have read a great many of the posts on this thread and for a large part they are crap.

Applying the logic from some posts I should NOT allow my 11 year old to drive in case he collides with someone... on private land.... where the insurance will not give a **** anyhow.

So what should we do. All give up and go home, spend a quiet day in with the wife and tell stories about how "when I was a kid we were able to drive 'cross fields an'd learned to drive 'tractor before I was old enough to fook"

The truth is that most of the people on pay and play sites who will be in accidents are licensed, every day drivers. They are also ****s who do not know their own or their vehicle's limitations.

Teaching my boy to drive now... on p&p sites will make him a really good driver in a couple of years.

Truth is I would put him up against a load of the drivers I have seen at Whaddon and Know that he would out drive them with his eyes shut. But according to some of the **** comments on here he should never have been allowed to learn.

Bollocks... he should be spoon fed every little piece of experience he craves... every bit of knowledge he can glean from the other members on here (though for the most part not this thread), and every moment of pleasure he can get from his 109 and my disco...

Now WHO THE **** is going to argue with that?

i have now bothered to read (most) of this, rider let your little un learn and anyone else for that matter, why not? if its because your worried about your car then the child will worry as well

lr110 said:

i have now bothered to read (most) of this, rider let your little un learn and anyone else for that matter, why not? if its because your worried about your car then the child will worry as well

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If I were worried about the car... we wouldn't be off roading it methinks Mind you if he breaks it... he fixes it... it's the rules ya know!

Ryder said:

I have read a great many of the posts on this thread and for a large part they are crap.

Applying the logic from some posts I should NOT allow my 11 year old to drive in case he collides with someone... on private land.... where the insurance will not give a **** anyhow.

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I drove a bit on P&P sites from about 13 or 14. Never hit anyone, and most people were just curtious and stopped for me when i wanted a run up at a big hill or something. It was great fun. Sadly i only did it a few times, i wish i had done it a lot more, then i might have built a competiton spec landy instead of buying a house... then again, i might have also lost my gf if i'd done that

Still, good on you, let your kid play and learn, and if or when he does accidently bump into someone at stupidly slow speeds i'm sure they will just laugh and mock him a bit.

(That's all i did when my neighbour came round after backing his BMW into my landie - and he has a license!)

Cheers Mike, that's my opinion too. He's rarely in the vehicle on his own, and when he is it is only to move it out of someone else's way or to move it to a safe distance while we watch a recovery. A lot of the members on here have seen how we are at P&P and it does make me cross when people make such scathing comments, generalising about things they seems to have little understanding of.