Freelander 1 Jatco auto gearbox problem

My auto gearbox has started to play up recently. When driving along and I brake from say 30mph it makes a slight bang and jerk as the speed drops past about 5 to 8 mph (guess at the speed). I assume it's selecting 2nd gear or doing whatever it needs to do when it knows we're slowing down and potentially about to stop. It seemed to do it every time I braked. It would happen from any speed whilst braking through 5 to 8mph I think.

Faced with the potential of another failed auto gearbox and the reality ma heap may be propper broke'd past the economical point of repair I thought about getting a replacement. Mine is a 2001 v6 on 34.5k miles. 22.5k miles ago a recon auto gearbox was fitted because the previous one leaked auto oil and destroyed itself whilst running on low oil. I don't know the full mileage of the current recon auto but it was main sealer fitted/supplied in 2007. I'm not a boy racer but admit to doing regular 3.5 miles journeys. I do some longer trips and take it for a drive if it's not had one for a while.

The strange thing is all up shifts are smooth. Down shifts are smooth too, except the slowing down jerk as said above. Kick down works and so does manual mode. All 5 forward gears have drive and it's locking the torque convertor when it should. Reverse is ok. All solenoid resistances are within tolerance and the barrel connecters are still secured tight with the backup hose clips and tie wraps in place just in case they come apart again. Oil level is correct and it dun't leak.

Distraught with despair at the thought of ma heap being broke'd I got some auto oil and did the usual part oil change. This didn't fix the problem initially and I was upset for the next 30 to 40 miles whilst it still did it's slowing down jerk. As if by magic after looking at Freelander 2's the jerk problem suddenly disappeared. Then it came back after 10 miles, but it now only does the slowing down jerk thing during 1 in 20 slowdowns. So I've ordered some more auto oil to do another change but not just yet as I've been thinking about replacing solenoids. I figured if one change made it betterer then a 2nd change may solve it even betterer. Hopefully it may be cured.

When the auto oil comes out it's not cherry red like the new stuff. It's not gritty but it does turn darker. It doesn't smell burnt. I expect the auto oil to be darker as it normally is when changing the auto oil on the current auto. So that's nothing new, but I guess something is wearing inside. On a low yearly mileage this is something I may be able to cope with.

I'm wondering if the recent auto oil change helped a possible sticking solenoid to become unstuck. It may just be a coincidence but I don't think so. Normally if the gear changes becomes anything other than perfectly smooth an oil change makes it smooth again. I'm wondering if one or more of the solenoids may need replaced to solve the jerk problem. If so, which one?

Shift solenoid valve A
Reduction timing solenoid valve
Shift solenoid valve B
Shift solenoid valve C
2-4 brake duty solenoid valve
2-4 brake timing solenoid valve
Low clutch timing solenoid valve
Lock-up solenoid valve
Line pressure duty solenoid valve

The only other thing I could say is a possible concern is when putting it into drive/reverse or out of drive/reverse into neutral, it sometimes does so with a sudden pulse of movement. There's a slight jerk or bang on rare occasions. At all other times it's a smooth take up or release of drive/reverse. It does this say 1 in 50 times and always has regardless of the latest jerk fault. This is not due to transmission wind up releasing as the vcu is currently removed for testing. So I was wondering if a solenoid change would solve this problem too?

resistance check = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTmdkDuKZ6A

Are you sure the lower tie bar is in sound condition? If it's gone soft it allows all 300 Kg's of power unit to flop about uncontrolled. Mine used to jerk and thump about until I fitted the poly tie bar bush.
Don't worry about auto fluid going darker with age as that is normal.
I think it's best not to over analyze these things and use it. Over analyze it and you start to imagine all sorts of horrors

I will check the tie bar movement by recording it with a camera while driving but I don't think it's that. It probably does have some movement as it hasn't been replaced but it hasn't failed either. Today I went to collect my oil and it played up again. This time it added some funny down changes as if it were revving/pushing forward a bit more than it should. You get a jerk as if it harshly punches itself into gear, as opposed to a wobble due to engine movement, when it slows down through 5 to 8mph as it does whatever it's doing. The sound of the jerk is a bang which you can hear and feel. This points towards a gear change or something changing harshly inside. If it's allowed to continue to do this before a repair then the cost will only get worse. Hence why I'm looking at it now but puzzled by what it's doing.

Maybe you have a solonoid sticking or failing. There is a small section about gearbox problems on RAVE which might point you in the wright direction? Does the Hawkeye show anything is is amiss? Does it change harshly when you use the command shift?

Does the same with command shift too. Even choosing to change manually out of sync with expected auto changes doesn't do anything different. I guess solenoids are a tight fit or leak proof in some way. So it could be a sticking solenoid or a leaking solenoid, if they can leak that it. One thing I've noticed is slowing down gently reduces the chance of a jerk, but it can still happen. The auto still feels as if it's in too higher a gear when breaking and pushing forward more than it should be, until it drops down. That makes me think part of it could be to do with the calculation of power required v gearing. So could be a sensor which is out of spec. Other than this it drives ok and is safe. Seems to be more of a problem when the air con is running. I bought it a creeper and 8 ton bottle jack yesterday thinking it may make it happy but it didn't. I will have another look at rave and try to work out what each solenoid does, and when.

I took it for a drive yesterday and filmed my Hawkeye whilst the engine was warm on tick over and at 60mph. I will compare this to previous recordings for the engine and auto gearbox. I stopped off to do some other stuff and when it was time to leave it wouldn't start. Hawkeye said I had P1666 code (security code not received) and it still wouldn't start. The starter motor would spin but that was it. Doors would lock/unlock with the remote etc and the dash was normal. Battery ok. So I looked further into this with the Hawkeye and found the key was working, as ma heap was able to sense the key in the ignition and know when it's turned - immobilised goes to mobilised. It also knew when I was trying to start it. Looked at loads of stuff and thought it was going to end up with calling the AA. Watched the key count go up which is normal but the vehicle immobilised count was also going up every time I tried to start it. That triggered thoughts of there being something wrong with the key or immobiliser as this count doesn't normally change. So I thought about this for a bit and as I didn't have a petrol leak or matches to hand I thought I'd try the old getting out and getting back in trick. I took some lengths of wood out the boot and took the neg oft the battery by wiggling it with my fingers. Then put the neg back on with the wood assisting so it's pushed back on tight. Ma heap started first time. Hawkeye confirmed the vehicle immobilised count had stopped increasing each time I started it. I then drove home and apart from a the issues as a above with the auto gearbox everything was ok. It hit 6k revs in 3rd when accelerating and never missed a beat all the way home. So the investigation continues.

Hi ,

I am your fan and enjoy reading your posts especially how to modify air intake manifold.:clap2::clap2:

Here is my one cent-

The jatco auto gearbox 's jerking problem mostly coming from mixing 4 Ltr. new oil gear

to the old dirty filthy 4.5 Ltr. oil gear. No matter how good is the oil gear you put in , the

minute they mix together the whole 8.5 Ltr oil gear become a filthy oil gear. The filthy oil

gear leaves filthy and dirty film on the solenoids and cause the solenoids not working

properly.


Once you clean the whole system with the oil flushing machine ( if it's available )

the problem will be solved once and for all .

Oh you have to clean all the solenoids too

( from my experience the solenoids will be good again even it showed faults before.)


Here's a picture of oil flushing machine




There is no need to use expensive Landrover 's oil gear. Just use good fully synthetic oil

in your market which is much cheaper to flush the gear box and use as your standard

gear box oil . The most important thing is to change oil every 20,000 km. instead of

every 60,000 km. as stated in LR manual.


Please pardon my English as it's not my mother's tongue.

Cheers,

Paul

PS. if there is no flushing oil machine near you just use any method you can think of to get rid of all dirty oil in the system as much as possible . By doing this I guess you have to use new gear oil . ( ordinary fully synthetic oil which is much cheaper then LR's oil and I do believe it's exactly the same quality )

personaly id remove box end plate and check condition of clutches

nohave, welcome to the forum. Your English is quite good. I've seen those machines on you tube. They were being used to clean out auto gearboxes which had coolant mix in with the auto oil. Not sure if we use them in the UK.

All

The oil which came out wasn't too bad. It was slightly darker than when it went in, but it's only done about 10 to 12k miles. So there shouldn't really be anything wrong with it.

Since starting this thread I have changed the auto oil once using the partial change method. This didn't solve the problem but I did notice after 20 to 30 miles the regularity of the jerking problem happening reduced. At the 50 miles stage the jerk stopped happening. This seems strange as I had set my mind on the auto oil being the problem, with perhaps a solenoid which wasn't in 100% good health. But that may not necessarily be the case.

I still think the partial oil change has done it some good. One thing I have noticed is the jerk is far more likely to happen if the air conditioning is running. I haven't switched on the air con for the last 100 miles and the jerk hasn't happened. I'm going to keep it off for a while longer to see if the jerk problem has gone, then put the air con on to see if it comes back. The engine knows when the air con is on and I guess the engine power alters a bit. I think this is producing the feeling I get of the car wanting to push forward more, as if it's not down changing gears when it should, as it slows done. The jerk could be the miss timing of down changes due to the same problem. This is only a theory at the moment but it ties in nicely with my original thoughts.

jamesmartin said:

personaly id remove box end plate and check condition of clutches

Click to expand...

Yep. That's plan c at the moment.

its not necessarily a good idea to over flush auto boxes ,they dont get dirty till somethings wrong, which a flushes use is to clean system so newly repaired box isnt contaminated by debris fron original problem ,a partial change is all thats needed

Nohave said:

Hi ,

I am your fan and enjoy reading your posts especially how to modify air intake manifold.:clap2::clap2:

Here is my one cent-

The jatco auto gearbox 's jerking problem mostly coming from mixing 4 Ltr. new oil gear

to the old dirty filthy 4.5 Ltr. oil gear. No matter how good is the oil gear you put in , the

minute they mix together the whole 8.5 Ltr oil gear become a filthy oil gear. The filthy oil

gear leaves filthy and dirty film on the solenoids and cause the solenoids not working

properly.


Once you clean the whole system with the oil flushing machine ( if it's available )

the problem will be solved once and for all .

Oh you have to clean all the solenoids too

( from my experience the solenoids will be good again even it showed faults before.)


Here's a picture of oil flushing machine

There is no need to use expensive Landrover 's oil gear. Just use good fully synthetic oil

in your market which is much cheaper to flush the gear box and use as your standard

gear box oil . The most important thing is to change oil every 20,000 km. instead of

every 60,000 km. as stated in LR manual.


Please pardon my English as it's not my mother's tongue.

Cheers,

Paul

PS. if there is no flushing oil machine near you just use any method you can think of to get rid of all dirty oil in the system as much as possible . By doing this I guess you have to use new gear oil . ( ordinary fully synthetic oil which is much cheaper then LR's oil and I do believe it's exactly the same quality )

Click to expand...

flushing machine does not get it out of the torque converter. Need to clean the pan and change filter. If you want to get it really clean the you have to do a few fill and drain with the trans oil. Cost of oil is cheaper than a new tranmission

jamesmartin said:

its not necessarily a good idea to over flush auto boxes ,they dont get dirty till somethings wrong, which a flushes use is to clean system so newly repaired box isnt contaminated by debris fron original problem ,a partial change is all thats needed

Click to expand...

Thanks. I did buy a second set of oil to do another flush when the first one didn't work but at the time I was also considering taking the solenoid cover off. I was going to use the new oil for that when refilling but the rain delayed this and the jerk has gone (hopefully) so I'm waiting to see how long it is before it happens again, with the air con off. Mad I know but it is a Freelander.

Just driven it a further 70 miles and it drives fantastic, just as it should. No air con on. Smooth gear changes up and down and it was proper hot with the majority at 70mph and a 20 minute stationary period when it was switched oft to see if it would run proper thereafter when restarting when hot. It did.

Hippo said:

Just driven it a further 70 miles and it drives fantastic, just as it should. No air con on. Smooth gear changes up and down and it was proper hot with the majority at 70mph and a 20 minute stationary period when it was switched oft to see if it would run proper thereafter when restarting when hot. It did.

Click to expand...

Now drive until warm and then change filter and fluid. The you should be golden for miles to come. Them electric shift transmission are a fussy lot. They like clean fluid, least spec of crap can cause problems.

May the force be with you :fighting2: against them dirty pig owners

problem is filter needs to have box split to reach it

jamesmartin said:

problem is filter needs to have box split to reach it

Click to expand...

Not good then, bad transmission naughty designers

Just been out again and tested it doing an emergency stop on my private country estate from 67mph to 0mph using gps to know the initial speed. It did it ok with no jerk or surprise gear change other than it dropping the gears as it should, when stopping so sharp like that. So it's still quick to sense conditions/change requests required to keep the auto gearbox happy. Stopped in 4 seconds from touch of brake pedal to stationary. That's with the props/vcu removed and running Pirelli Scorpion STR 215/65R16 98H tyres on a dry road at 10 degrees. Video to follow at a later date.

I suspect you could have an electrical problem rather than a fluid problem as you said it was worse with air con on. make sure all the wire connectors are good .

I do feel that sometimes the engine ecu over does the between gear torque reduction which would produce a jerk. Mine does this in the same place every day as i drive home from work. It's a down hill section of road a few hundred yards from start up. There is a definite torque reduction on the upshift from 2nd to 3rd but with the throttle only litely applied the torque reduction is to much for a smooth up change.

Nodge68 said:

I do feel that sometimes the engine ecu over does the between gear torque reduction which would produce a jerk. Mine does this in the same place every day as i drive home from work. It's a down hill section of road a few hundred yards from start up. There is a definite torque reduction on the upshift from 2nd to 3rd but with the throttle only litely applied the torque reduction is to much for a smooth up change.

Click to expand...

I have the exact same symptoms