Is this a bad idea!

Hi

I am very seriously thinking of buying a 90TDi or a Defender [90] 200TDi for general fun and enjoyment but also on a slightly serious note and i would value you opinion.

2 questions:
1. what are the 90 TDi's like? Avoid like the plauge and get a 200TDi or are they just as good?
2. i am thinking of insuring my soon to be 17yr old son on whatever i buy. nothing better than a pretty basic car to learn on imho.

thanks in anticipation
BM52

90s are just TD and are OK but you will constantly be wishing you'd splashed out on a 200tdi or 300tdi. To mark the change from TD to TDi they changed the name to Defender (late 1990, mine's virtually the last td off the line)

TD's don't have the componentry (???) to cope very well with the added power (there's a joke there which you'll only get if you get one) of the turbo, which made them unreliable and prone to needing rebuilds every 100K or so. TDI's are known for going half a million miles with only minor bits needing doing, and then it's normally the car which falls apart anyway.

So my advice would be go for a 200 (not necessarily in a defender, there's plenty of 90s in good nick which have had transplants and virtually all the other bits are the same) else you'll probably only wish you had, and end up spending a grand on getting it changed anyway.

Check the engine, gearboxes etc, but MOST important is the state of the chassis (and front bulkhead can be a bugger for rusting)

90 refers to the length (wheelbase), not anything else (as opposed to a 110 or a 130)

But NO!!!! It's NOT a bad idea, just a new passion!

PS What was the second question???

ah...i take it you suggest a 200 only or if funds permit a newer engine [300 or TD5!!]

funds are an issue, that means i will have to get a 200 engined 90/Defender.

is there an easy way to tell the difference between a TDi and a 200TDi?

what can you get for about £4k? i will need a CSW i think [at least 4 seats], not a van.

the second question is really about anyones experience using a 90 to teach a learner to drive?

thanks
BM52

Personally i would recommend a 200tdi over a td (a td is NOT injected, the fuel's swirled in so it's just a Turbodiesel- and just out of interest these engines are normally referred to as the 19j engine) just because they are a bit (noticeably) more powerful and far more reliable.

You will easily get a reasonable 200 for your funds. If you start looking at the 300 you will start to have to compromise on quality, and there's no real difference between the performance of the 200 and the 300, it's just an emmissions thing. With landys, age doesn't really matter, it's the quality of the important bits, whichis really the chassis an bulkhead (and of course check the obvious, gearboxes, engine etc)

The immediate obvious difference between the td and the 200 is the oil filler cap - in a td it just lifts out and has 3 indents in it and is made of metal and has a domed top with a hose coming out the side, whereas the tdi is a plastic jobby which is flat and unscrews. (and i think is yellow?)

Look on Ebay, and on the Autotrader website, for an idea of what you can get. Check before you buy, and do a search on here for what to look for, there's loads of good info, and if possible take someone along who knows what to look for. As i said the chassis is the really important (non-obvious) thing, a bad one can make the car worthless. CSWs have 6 or 7 seats so you'll be ok there, but the back ones aren't usually great for long journeys. Vans are easily converted to station wagons for only a few hundred quid.

Defenders are slow, chunky machines but they are relatively easy to drive. It is not like driving a normal car, they don't have very good road manners and are not very good in high speed impacts from a passenger point of view (the rigid chassis means the body can't cope with the stopping distances!) but as a first car, relatively cheap to insore, far better street cred for your son than a blinged up saxo and much more fun - and he will meet interesting people who randomly come up to landy drivers and start chatting about them!

another point - a good TD powered vehicle is MUCH better than a tatty Tdi, they's nothing wrong with the TD engine - just remember it's not going to give you sports car performance

there's plenty of good cheap TD powered vehicles around, and if in a years time you feel the need it wont cost a fortune to install the 200Tdi engine

body and chassis condition comes first - engine second

Sean said:

another point - a good TD powered vehicle is MUCH better than a tatty Tdi, they's nothing wrong with the TD engine - just remember it's not going to give you sports car performance

there's plenty of good cheap TD powered vehicles around, and if in a years time you feel the need it wont cost a fortune to install the 200Tdi engine

body and chassis condition comes first - engine second

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Absolutely, i'm going around in a reasonably tidy td (with a fairly recently reconned engine) and it's OK, loads better than some really scrappy tdi's ive seen. Age is irrelevant, i saw a really tatty R reg tdi on Ebay, from Jersey the other day which had a chassis you could have strained your veg through, similarly i've seen galvie chassis-ed e reg td's which will probably go for ever. However, it does leave me coveting TDI engines! (which i will no doubt get round to putting in when my td shows signs of its age). Am running on mostly veg oil and i think the TDI's do this better as they have Bosch pumps, the Lucas pump in td's shudders at veg oil viscosity - i do quite a high mileage so am making a reasonable saving at 71ppl.

Try and get a galvie chassis if you can, you're most likely on to a winner then, but check the bulkhead (particularly the footwells and top corners) well.

The most patently obvious difference between the TDi's and the TD is the intercooler and the mass of extra plumbing which fills in those cavernous expanses you see under the bonnet of a TD

Take5 said:

The most patently obvious difference between the TDi's and the TD is the intercooler and the mass of extra plumbing which fills in those cavernous expanses you see under the bonnet of a TD

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I agree but if you don't know what you're looking at then the oil filler is what sticks out, it's either a colourful plastic screw in one on a tdi or a bland metallic loose plug in one on a td!

wow...masses of information

thanks very much, i'll be taking my oldest LR Owner [sorry Freelander owning] son out a week tomorrow to have a look at a couple in a garage to get the feel of them for my self.

apart from 3 or 4 very new Discovery's and RR's i have only driven a Series III petrol, so i have lots to learn and enjoy.

thanks again for all the advice and i will let you know what we buy

regards
BM52

Good luck, think Chassis Chassis Chassis!!! That's the real show stopper, i look forward to hearing about what you get!

Have a good look at this excellent info (but don't be too put off about his turbo diesel slating episode, they're not THAT bad!) and print it off and take it with you!

http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f38/buying-second-hand-90-a-50248.html

i learned to drive in a l/r luckily was in the army and test was a lot easier in 92 he wont sit his test in a land rover and there are several points thatr could result in failing test however driving lessons to teach himand practice in the l/r would do the trick espec if hes going to drive it once past test

Ey Buster can you translate this for us sassenachs.

are we that bovvered?

Is them handbrake fumes affecting everyone???

GRUNT said:

Ey Buster can you translate this for us sassenachs.

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Ah'll try

i learned to drive in a l/r luckily was in the army and test was a lot easier in 92 he wont sit his test in a land rover and there are several points thatr could result in failing test however driving lessons to teach himand practice in the l/r would do the trick espec if hes going to drive it once past test

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errrrmmmm, in a word.... no. Too many joined up words for me, sorry guys

defenderdavie said " he wont sit his test in a land rover "

is that right? i assumed he would be able to sit the test in a defender? after all he will be driving it after the test!!

can anyone confirm that he can take the test in it?

cheers
BM52

sorry lads its saturday night and ive been sitting at computer with a bottle of brandy and possabily my grammer and punctuation have slipped somewhat

he can take his test in his/your vehicle however if the examiner finds a fault with the vehicle ie dodge brake light etc he can fail canidate on the spot
ps i made an assumption he would not sit test in it sorry

best check it out before hand to be on the safe side

defenderdavie said:

sorry lads its saturday night and ive been sitting at computer with a bottle of whatever and possabily my grammer and punctuation have slipped somewhat

Click to expand...

Aren't we all

ah - OK,

note to self : make thorough check on everything just before the test....[looks like i'll be doing a mini home made MOT !!!]

cheers