Internittent start, no power and lots of blue/black smoke

Hello Biglad .Look at threads on here titled 300t.d.i overheated thats where I got my info.

spudy said:

that is impossible to tell without removing the head from the engine..

if your pistons where cracked miss shaped worn or broken in any way you would know...the engine itself would be making a lot of noise due to the pressure in the cylinder's being uneven throwing the balence way off it.

i have never seen a landy with a blown piston but i have had a few smaller cars that have blown there engine's and belive me i knew it was a big problem long before it got to a garage..

they rattled like fook they boiled the water jacket within miniuts of running and the oil gave the same signs as a blown head gasket just with a lot more noise from the block its self.

does your engine sound like its running on less than 4 cylinder's do you hear it miss fireing or decompressing on a certian point ?

i would never belive any mechanic who told me he had xray vision as thats the only way he could tell you it was that before splitting the block to look in...

some of my info may be way off as i say i have never had a blown lump in a landy yet but if a small car makes a lot of noise then i expect a landy would too .

Click to expand...

Garage man told me he'd removed the head of the engine (not piston) to look at the cause of the noise and lots of vibrations when my engine was running. It happened rather suddenly when the engine was aounding like an unwell traction engine, it stalled when I started reversing up my drive and upon restart lots of blue/black smoke with lots of noise and vibration.

Last year when I had problems with my disco I saw two others in the garage with the head removed.Both 3oot.d.i about same year as mine.Both had bad damage to cylinder and pistons especially the first piston at the rear of the engine.I was told this was caused by overheating.This must be a fairly common problem with old discos.

My only problem now is persuading the Misses the either a) keep this Disco now problems have been sorted or b) sell it to buy another Disco.

Both will be bloomin hard work either way!

I feel lost without 'Dave' sat on my drive....

I went to look at my injun earlier and it didn't look good! The main engine bulkhead has been quite badly scorched between the 2nd and 3rd piston cylinders. The garage said 'simon' will be in to look at engine and to determine exactly what needs to be done and from that they will know how long/how much it will cost to repair.
I've already been told £300 labour plus parts so I'm thinking £500+. Does that sound about right?

Kev627 said:

I've already been told £300 labour plus parts so I'm thinking £500+. Does that sound about right?

Click to expand...

Just be glad (VERY glad) it's not a TD5!

If it were me and I was into pistons and such like I recon I would be looking for another engine, it sounds like it's gona cost and the way your talking it's been given a pounding, so will you be happy with it at the end of this.

Whilst your waiting on the estimate, and my advice to you is to make sure it's a proper estimate with no hidden surprizes and a guarantee at the end, source and price another engine just in case. It might be the cheap route.

david451 said:

If it were me and I was into pistons and such like I recon I would be looking for another engine, it sounds like it's gona cost and the way your talking it's been given a pounding, so will you be happy with it at the end of this.

Whilst your waiting on the estimate, and my advice to you is to make sure it's a proper estimate with no hidden surprizes and a guarantee at the end, source and price another engine just in case. It might be the cheap route.

Click to expand...

I asked how much a replacement unit would cost and was told they did one a couple of months ago, a 300Tdi at £1200-£1400. Bearing in mind I paid £1500 for disco I didn't really see that as cost effective! They also mentioned flea bay but warned engine you buy could be in exactly the same state as mine currently is or worse.

Kev627 said:

I asked how much a replacement unit would cost and was told they did one a couple of months ago, a 300Tdi at £1200-£1400. Bearing in mind I paid £1500 for disco I didn't really see that as cost effective! They also mentioned flea bay but warned engine you buy could be in exactly the same state as mine currently is or worse.

Click to expand...

I think they are talking about a newish unit here, far too much, you need to work harder to find a good unit and there are plenty. I think that they are trying to frighten you, yes it is possible to pick up a bummer but take somebody with you who knows and go to the right places. The overhaul that you are into is going to be costly.

Do a search on here to start with.

Any good breakers where you are that specialize in 4x4 and landies, that's the next place to go. Get on the phone to landie people and source a good unit, clubs are another port of call, I would be surprized if you can't find a good unit. I guess if you want to keep the cost down you could fit a 200tdi unit with a few changes, but check first to see what needs done. I know the 300tdi does into the 200, so it can't be that bad.

Cover all your options so you have something to play with, and compare it with. Unfortunately you know little and will be guided by the garage, but by speaking to a number of people it's surprizing what you will learn, get on the phone whilst your waiting on the estimate, and remember the estimate must come with a guarantee, written, and I will be surprized if they do that for you.

Why don't you take your own expert down to have a look at your engine.

I you want me to shoot the guy who sold you it, I'm cheap, I have an elephant gun under the bed and could probably get him from here.

Good luck.

My engine was shot when I bought my 300tdi defender. I found a second hand engine (92,000 miles) with 6 month guarantee for £450. Have a look on ebay cos you can regularly get them for under £600. I then recouped my money by selling the head, turbo, manifolds, vacuum pump, alternator starter motor and injection pump and weighed in the block at the scrapyard. I could have sold the block too but lost the storage so had to get shot of it quick. This paid for the engine AND the cambelt kit that I fitted to the new one. In short It is nowhere near as expensive to sling a new one in as you first think. If the garage is trying to charge you over £250 to change them over you are being robbed.

ratty said:

My engine was shot when I bought my 300tdi defender. I found a second hand engine (92,000 miles) with 6 month guarantee for £450. Have a look on ebay cos you can regularly get them for under £600. I then recouped my money by selling the head, turbo, manifolds, vacuum pump, alternator starter motor and injection pump and weighed in the block at the scrapyard. I could have sold the block too but lost the storage so had to get shot of it quick. This paid for the engine AND the cambelt kit that I fitted to the new one. In short It is nowhere near as expensive to sling a new one in as you first think. If the garage is trying to charge you over £250 to change them over you are being robbed.

Click to expand...

Good comment, I think he needs to work harder to find other engine, once you allow the garage to go too far with the blown engine it's difficult to recoupe the losses, and then you become pressured into going with them.

It's like getting stuck in mud, some people just keep going forward regardless and end up in a hopeless situation at the mercy of the elements, when they need to stop think and plan, and sometimes going back to go forwards in another direction hurts but it is the way to go, particularilly so when the meter is running in a garage. TIME COSTS MORE THAN PARTS IN A GARAGE, £50-£90 PER HOUR AND IT HURTS.

I worked all my life in garages and I was embarressed at some of the bills, and would often do other jobs I found F.O.C, Robbing Bastroids so they are.

david451 said:

I think they are talking about a newish unit here, far too much, you need to work harder to find a good unit and there are plenty. I think that they are trying to frighten you, yes it is possible to pick up a bummer but take somebody with you who knows and go to the right places. The overhaul that you are into is going to be costly.

Do a search on here to start with.

Any good breakers where you are that specialize in 4x4 and landies, that's the next place to go. Get on the phone to landie people and source a good unit, clubs are another port of call, I would be surprized if you can't find a good unit. I guess if you want to keep the cost down you could fit a 200tdi unit with a few changes, but check first to see what needs done. I know the 300tdi does into the 200, so it can't be that bad.

Cover all your options so you have something to play with, and compare it with. Unfortunately you know little and will be guided by the garage, but by speaking to a number of people it's surprizing what you will learn, get on the phone whilst your waiting on the estimate, and remember the estimate must come with a guarantee, written, and I will be surprized if they do that for you.

Why don't you take your own expert down to have a look at your engine.

I you want me to shoot the guy who sold you it, I'm cheap, I have an elephant gun under the bed and could probably get him from here.

Good luck.

Click to expand...

ooh, don't tempt me! I did think it was all a bit too good to be true, half decent Landy, off road prepped from an obvious Landy freak (3 in his drive) for 1500 notes but now it has all become painfully clear!

Kev627 said:

ooh, don't tempt me! I did think it was all a bit too good to be true, half decent landy, off road prepped from an obvious Landy freak (3 in his drive) for 1500 notes but now it has all become painfully clear!

Click to expand...

£1500 was not a tragedy, if the body is good then mechanics are fairly cheap and easy, all you need is a bod to do it, garages are a no no.

Do a search as I said on the internet for landrover spares, breakers, and so on, plenty off them. And put a request in here and see what comes up.

I take it the guy who sold you it has told you to Fook off.

Think about what you are going to do here and do your maths, but you need the figures and you need to search.

It's all fixed now!

Description of work copied from receipt;

Investigate lack of power. 318.75
Removed cylinder head, headgasket blown between middle cylinders.
Stripped head and sent for skimming.
Rebuilt cylinder head and refitted.
Water pump found to be leaking when engine started.
Replaced water pump.

Advise damaged sustained to tops of pistons caused by fragments of gasket.

Parts
Engine oil 38.50
Oil filter 8.50
Antifreeze 19.50
Head skim 75.00
Head gasket 20.00
Head bolt x4 30.20
Injector seal x4 3.72
Valve cover gasket 6.07
Intake gasket 11.35
Water pump 46.81
Pump gasket 3.12

Total 683.29

Does this all sound like a good deal?

Alright Kev.Prices dont seem to bad for a garage .A garage in Macclesfield (Froggarts)quoted me £6oo + v.a.t for head gasket and skim.Got out of there rapid.Still had to pay £45 for their diagnosis. which was wrong , head gasket hadn't gone.I paid £1900 for my Disco so your £4oo up already.Only worry is your pistons .Will they be o.k if left? Redhand was saying you can pick up 200 t.d.i engine on ebay for £200 .My mate does rebuilds and engine swaps, think he charges £3oo for straight swap but his place is in Stockport.Good luck whatever you decide to do.

As the other guy said it is a garage, hope they give you a guarantee. You need to find a bod to do work for you you won't survive in the garage world, particularilly if your going off road and keep breaking it.

Make sure you give it a real good road test, and it might be a good idea to fit a device to warn of early water loss, plenty on this site.

Kev make sure you check your rads not blocked like mine was .Might be what caused problems in the first place.

Kev627 said:

It's all fixed now!

Description of work copied from receipt;

Investigate lack of power. 318.75
Removed cylinder head, headgasket blown between middle cylinders.
Stripped head and sent for skimming.
Rebuilt cylinder head and refitted.
Water pump found to be leaking when engine started.
Replaced water pump.

Advise damaged sustained to tops of pistons caused by fragments of gasket.

Parts
Engine oil 38.50
Oil filter 8.50
Antifreeze 19.50
Head skim 75.00
Head gasket 20.00
Head bolt x4 30.20
Injector seal x4 3.72
Valve cover gasket 6.07
Intake gasket 11.35
Water pump 46.81
Pump gasket 3.12

Total 683.29

Does this all sound like a good deal?

Click to expand...

No.

If you were paying to get all that done you should have paid an extra £100 and had a timing belt kit fitted.

ratty said:

No.

If you were paying to get all that done you should have paid an extra £100 and had a timing belt kit fitted.

Click to expand...

At the end of November I had to have Diesal pump changed and the timing belt was changed then.

When I drove the Disco home after having the 'rear propshaft rubber coupling replaced as split and out of shape' I was initially a bit concerned as reason it was done was due to vibration felt through steering wheel when driving and it was actually alot worse.
The following day vibration was still there but less so and day after that it had gone completely, it is now driving like it hasn't done so since I bought it six months ago!
Major bonus is fuel economy has improved drastically, I got 450 miles out of first measured tank, 480 out of second after filling with Reddex and am currently on 75 miles and needle barely moved off full on fuel gauge.