Intermittent starting problems

My naughty 2003 Td5 Discovery has developed an intermittent starting problem. Car works fine for a week, then refuses to start. Can sometimes start after a few minutes, and sometimes after a ride on a breakdown lorry!!AA suspected oil in the ECU, because they couldn't read a fault. I have just had the ECU and loom replaced, there was oil present in the red bit on the ECU, (technical term!!)
But she still refuses to start sometimes!!
When this happens, I turn the key and...............nothing.
I have tried locking and unlocking the doors, nothing. I even got locked out last time!! She refused to recognise her own keys!! Even when I could open the door, using the key in the door, the alarm wouldn't go off.
I am suspecting 'Spider' or immobiliser??
The garage keeps plugging in the diagnostic computer, but can't find any fault.
When it first happened, disconnecting the battery helped, but this no longer works. (I didn't preform this piece of wizardry!!An AA man did!)
HELP!

I would believe that it's just your starter which is dying...
Do you have lights in your dashboard when turning the ignition ?

Lars

What lights and behaviour do you get when it isn't starting?

I had a similar problem with a (new to me) TD5 over the summer which developed an intermittent starting problem. I'm new to all these electronics in a landy so I was on a bit of a learning curve trying to work out the cause.

My symptoms were that most of the time it would start just fine on first turn of the key with normal light pattern: turn key to position II, yellow ECU & glow plug lights come on and then go off leaving just alternator light on, temp gauge cold... crank and it started fine.

When it was failing there was a different pattern no yellow lights, just red alternator light, and temp gauge goes full scale deflection off to the right.

After a bit of reading around, I worked out that this pattern means the ECU isn't operating (the clue is that the ECU drives the temp gauge and both the yellow lights but not the red alternator light which is independent) so literally the lights are on but nobody is home.

Turning the ignition off and on again a few times until I got the usual pattern of lights would normally cure it, but on bad mornings this would take a few minutes before it eventually deigned to start. On just one or two occasions, just after starting, the yellow ECU warning light would come on briefly and the engine would momentarily misfire or die and then pick up again and continue as if nothing had happened.

Before finding someone with a testbook I decided to work on the hunch that as the ECU was completely shutting down perhaps it had a power problem so I swapped the 10A relay that powers the ECU and tightened the earth connection and the problem then went away. Big sigh of relief, expensive repair bill averted until...

A few weeks later on holiday in the lake district when problem comes back much more aggressively, engine cutting out half way up/down hills. At this point, convinced I now have a half dead ECU I try a last ditch repair before getting it trailered to the local dealers for a wallet transplant in their favour of buying a kettle lead from a local shop, dismembering it to get some wire out and running a direct earth trace from the ECU earth connection to the battery negative terminal. Problem completely gone away!

In fact this reminds me that said kettle lead remnants are still there several months later and I really must tidy this up with a proper earth strap onto the gearbox or something.

robp44 said:

When it was failing there was a different pattern no yellow lights, just red alternator light, and temp gauge goes full scale deflection off to the right.

Click to expand...

Just realised you are talking about a Discovery and my problem was on a Defender so there will probably be a few hundred more lights involved and the temp guage symptom won't be the same as I think that reads in the opposite direction on a Discovery.

Thanks Robp44. I'm sure they are not too dissimilar!

Thanks Buckhandle!
Please don't let it be more expense!!
I'm hopping it's just a glitch, that will magically go away when she realises how much I have spent on her!!
Failing that, I don't get any lights on my dashboard, just an angry flashing alarm light!

Change the battery in the key fob. Always carry a spare battery in the motor as they dont give much warning of when they are going to die.

If the red led is rapidly flashing when u can't start it then it's deffinatly the immobiliser.... if u want to start it when it's immobilised u must enter the EKA code. The immobiliser's erratic behaviour might come from a fault within the internal fusebox/IDM or missbehaviour of BCU. Check for water ingress at both.

I don't get any lights on my dashboard, just an angry flashing alarm light!

Click to expand...

Do u mean not even when u turn the ignition up? ..cos if yes IMO the fusebox/IDM is fubar'd

Is it an automatic

Sierrafery,
Thank you! That sounds like great advise. She has just been towed away again! Grrrrrrrrr same thing, however when they got her off the lorry, she started again first time! I think she just hates me, and wants to go and live with the mechanic!!
When they ran the diagnostics on her, no fault showed. Could this still be the BCU?? or similar??
Thank you

Richy-2011
thank you, it's a manual, I push her everywhere atm!!
Sorry couldn't help that!
Slightly miffed today, that's 4 times in just over a week!!

It could be the BCU cos the BCU doesnt store faults whatsoever, and the diagnostic doesnt cover the IDM aswell

Shifty 1962
Thank you
Will change the battery, good idea!
The light on my key does flash red when I press the door lock or unlock, can it still deactivate like that??

sierrafery, thank you!
I will pass this on to my mechanic, he is completely at a loss as to what to try on it. Not very reassuring!!
Thank you, will keep you updated!
You don't have a money tree I can borrow, do you?? She is costing me a fortune!!

She is costing me a fortune!!

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So did mine in the first year of ownership.... then 4 years almost nothing(just fuel oils and filters)

If it is an auto it could be the switch that tells the ecu weather its in park or not thus not starting the car

Hi there, I don't know if this helps but I had a fault very much like yours with my 2003 discovery td5.

It's posted on here, but basically it was all because of a leaking sunroof (one of the all time favourites); water was entering the roof lining tracking down the wires to the connectors/junctions located behind the left hand panel of the passenger footwell.

The water caused the terminals to corrode and thus caused intermittent starting problems, which progressively got worse. A quick clean of the terminals and problem sorted, mind you it took me about ten days to locate the fault. If you track down my post I think it even tells you the colours of the wires concerned i.e. those running from the remote sensor in the roof lining that eventually connect to the BCU behind the passenger glove box.

If your sunroof is leaking it is a possibility that it could be the same problem - it's worth a try, and it's not going to cost!

Thanks Landyuser!
Will check it out!!
Yes I do have a leaky sun roof, aren't they supposed to!!!:lol:
But I love the idea of a cheap option, have just replaced the battery, ouch!

Also check where this is happening.

Google for

433 mHz interference LandRover alarm

I had this in my own garden due to putting new batteries in my weather station that was on a pole attached to the house. It killed BOTH my TD5s stone dead.

There are LOTS of things use 433 mHz radio frequency, shops, weather stations, greenhouse monitors, hundreds of stuff.

And ALL or ANY of then can disable your Landy on the spot.

GGGGGgggggggggggggggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr !

yummymummy said:

My naughty 2003 Td5 Discovery has developed an intermittent starting problem. Car works fine for a week, then refuses to start. Can sometimes start after a few minutes, and sometimes after a ride on a breakdown lorry!!AA suspected oil in the ECU, because they couldn't read a fault. I have just had the ECU and loom replaced, there was oil present in the red bit on the ECU, (technical term!!)
But she still refuses to start sometimes!!
When this happens, I turn the key and...............nothing.
HELP!

Click to expand...

When you say "I turn the key and...............nothing" what does that mean?

Does the starter work but the engine will not fire up, or does nothing happen at all, no starter motor operation?

The starter motor (and the engine) is immobilised by the alarm system

Borrow a Nanocom or Hawkeye and DISABLE the whole alarm and engine immobiliser, and see if that solves the problem.

I had to do that to mine to get my two Discos going, and then I discovered what had caused the problem - my own weather station that had been there working for over a year, but earlier that day I had fitted it with new Duracells . . .

If disabling the alarm and immobiliser sorts it, chances are that 433mHz radio frequency interference is a prime suspect. Get rid of the offending RFI source and re-set the alarm and immobiliser.

My case was so bad I had to enter the car with the alarm sounding, plug in my Hawkeye, and programme 'off' the alarm and immobiliser. Then the engine started up normally.