P38A Hypothetical question!

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Wazzajnr

Wazzajnr

Well-Known Member
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Chorley
Right guys, as the title says, this is (for now anyway) completely Hypothetical.
We all know about the slipping liners and head gaskets on the rover v8 and I believe good blocks are getting a bit thin on the ground so my question is as follows.
Would it be possible to fit the later BMW v8 engine but retain all the electronics of the rover v8?
My thinking is that a v8 4.4l isn't that much different to a v8 4.6l and as the ecu can adapt the mixture based on what comes out of the back then it would cope with the slight difference in displacement.
I'm guessing that the mounts and bellhousing wouldn't be massively different and generally speaking, more modern engines last far far far longer.
Fitting a later engine with its own electrics I think would be a complete nightmare trying to get it to interface with the rest of the car but just substituting the mechanicals should be relatively simple?
That said, is the 4.4 any more bombproof and/or available?
 
Will be an interesting project to see. Hypothetically it should work but even if the engine ECU can adapt that much, there are key differences to consider . . . .
  • Crank & Camshaft sensor outputs might not match. Pulses per revolution & TDC indication ?
  • MAF plus engine & inlet temp sensors may require re-calibration ?
  • Fuel Injector pulses may be similar, but fuel rail pressure also impacts pulse timing & duration.
  • Spark plug system may require different coils & triggers.
So you're gonna need a whole load of sensor data, and either a GEMS or Bosch ECU Guru to make it work.

But all this said, there are people out there that make V8 engines run on steam, so anything is possible !!
 
pwood999 said:
Will be an interesting project to see. Hypothetically it should work but even if the engine ECU can adapt that much, there are key differences to consider . . . .
  • Crank & Camshaft sensor outputs might not match. Pulses per revolution & TDC indication ?
  • MAF plus engine & inlet temp sensors may require re-calibration ?
  • Fuel Injector pulses may be similar, but fuel rail pressure also impacts pulse timing & duration.
  • Spark plug system may require different coils & triggers.
So you're gonna need a whole load of sensor data, and either a GEMS or Bosch ECU Guru to make it work.

But all this said, there are people out there that make V8 engines run on steam, so anything is possible !!
Click to expand...
I was thinking that we would keep the rover v8 sensors, making mechanical adaptors? I mean, how hard can it be?
 
it wont work with the Rover v8 ecu...........but aftermarket ecus are available that are fully programable and live mapable Megasquirt is one that springs to mind although others are available , the BMW 4.4 V8 ( M62) has variable valve timing , the later BMW N62 4.4 V8 320 BHP has variable valve timing and lift.
Having said all of that .......a BMW M62 would work with the ecu and wiring loom grafted into the P38 ( you may need a different fuel pump )
 
pwood999 said:
Well it looks like you volunteered to do the HowTo with pictures.
Click to expand...
Hahaha, maybe in ten years when I'm semi retired, although by then, I'll be wanting to stick a 200kw electric motor in it with a 100kwh battery pack that's the size of a fag packet and charges up in 2 minutes....... Ooooh, that'd be soooooooooo nice!
 
pwood999 said:
Well it looks like you volunteered to do the HowTo with pictures.
Click to expand...
Hahaha, maybe in ten years when I'm semi retired, although by then, I'll be wanting to stick a 200kw electric motor in it with a 100kwh battery pack that's the size of a fag packet and charges up in 2 minutes....... Ooooh, that'd be soooooooooo nice!
 
Moron said:
it wont work with the Rover v8 ecu...........but aftermarket ecus are available that are fully programable and live mapable Megasquirt is one that springs to mind although others are available , the BMW 4.4 V8 ( M62) has variable valve timing , the later BMW N62 4.4 V8 320 BHP has variable valve timing and lift.
Having said all of that .......a BMW M62 would work with the ecu and wiring loom grafted into the P38 ( you may need a different fuel pump )
Click to expand...
I'm trying to avoid non standard ecu and engine/gearbox mounting.
Getting a foreign ecu to communicate with the rest of the electronics on board is the sticking block.
Is the vvt mechanical or electrical?
 
Wazzajnr said:
I'm trying to avoid non standard ecu and engine/gearbox mounting.
Getting a foreign ecu to communicate with the rest of the electronics on board is the sticking block.
Is the vvt mechanical or electrical?
Click to expand...

Its electrical
 
Wazzajnr said:
So, why not just fix it mechanically at a suitable point? I'm not looking for more power or fuel efficiency, just a more reliable v8 block.
Click to expand...

The problem ( as I see it) is where would you "fix" the valve timing..........its variable so the valve timing will be optimum for a given rpm......to "fix" it at maximum valve opening would give more power at high rpm but I suspect ( and only suspect , but bare in mind your two ton plus car , ) torque would be less at low rpm and you may find acceleration from a standstill lacking , while "fixing it at a lower valve opening time will lower power at higher rpm, Personally if I was going to the trouble of fitting the BMW V8 the extra work to fit a Megasquirt would be a no brainer.......you know it makes sense ( hopefully)
 
Mark Piercy said:
would it be more feasible to have your old v8's liners top hatted?
if that's what you call it..
diesel owner :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Yes, I agree with all that you say. It's just that top hatting is only masking the problem, the aluminium walls are still thin as hell. Plus, there are less and less blocks around so by the time I want to do mine they'll be even stupider money.
I'm not saying no to the megasquirt solution, just that it's been discussed before and hooking it up to the rest of the car seems to be the sticking point.
I was just considering changing the block to a more reliable lump. At the end of the day, it's just lumps of aluminium sliding up and down in holes.
My thinking is that it would be easier to fit the bosch /gems electronics to the BMW lump than fitting the BMW electrics to the rest of the car.
As for fixing the valve timing, cars managed for years without vvt. Yes, there are compromises but no worse than the non vvt engine currently in there.
In reality, I suspect I'll end up with an l322 but I just like the p38 more. There are electronics but they're within my abilities, the l322 is possibly a bit beyond me.
 
most people think the p38 is beyond them, could just be a new learning curve? Most people glaze over when we start to explain how complicated our buses are compared to most cars of there age! My 2005 Volvo only has some of the things available on my 1999 RR. If it's a jump upto an L322 then you'll get the more reliable engine as your wish.. The rest of the electrical issues, if any and hopefully not.. Will be helped here by those who know better than us two. As long as your happy ;)
 
It is suggested that you read all you can on the M62 engine and is heavy reliance on the electronic wizardry of the Bosch DME system......it is a hugely complex engine compared to the Rover V8.

I have owned many M62 powered vehicles and it is a proven and brilliant power unit....but I suggest you do a massive amount of research on it and its associated subsystems.

Anything is possible, with time, money and patience.
 
pwood999 said:
But all this said, there are people out there that make V8 engines run on steam, so anything is possible !!
Click to expand...

Stationary applications I assume, as with a vehicle it would mean towing a trailer containing the steam generating kit (boiler, firebox etc.) :rolleyes:
Sounds like the OP is trying to re-invent the wheel, but then I'm just an old fart :(
 
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