How to prevent and repair K series Engine Failure

redrenger89 · Mar 18, 2009

So we should not buy a K series Freelander

The engines are junk and they fail often --- Heard this one before?

Just a thought, but lets be positive and sensible about this, and try to understand the reasons behind the failure and how to prevent it.

Forewarned is forearmed

Prevention is better than cure, perhaps those members with the relevant expertise and knowledge would like to share their experiences with other concerned members who have or would like to prevent engine failure.

As far as I am aware the problem is down to stress caused by a number of factors, resulting in the following;

1. Gasket failure
2. Head failure
3. Slipped liners

All the above can cause costly and distressing engine failure, and may result in scrapping an otherwise perfectly good vehicle.

Please add any constructive information.

There have been a large number of modifications in the past. Please list if you have the latest mods, and any links to other information e.g. part numbers and suppliers.

Members that have had Range Rovers will be aware of the Common Faults and Remedies offered on the RangeRover.net site, maybe we could create something similar with this Thread.

Positive and constructive comments only please plenty of other threads to moan

Regards Fred

The Mad Hat Man · Mar 18, 2009

:nothingtoadd:

Darmain · Mar 18, 2009

There are plenty of stories on this forum regarding those that have been unfortunate with the K series. I don't own a K series because in my view a petrol engine is not a natural work horse lump. Also I did my homework and heard the bad reputation (and I bought a Freelander anyway!! No I don't regret it, its a great car and I love it.). It is clear the Freelander is too heavy for the K series lump and it is also clear there are design issues with the beast, period.

The thing is, and I am no different, people tend to seek out this site when they have problems. There are a lot of people moaning about how bad this engine is. There again I suspect that is because their example has let them down. I suspect they form the majority of the forum members for that singular reason. There is the odd occurance of people stating the K has been as good as gold and has never given problems.

There are a lot of FL1's out there and a fair percentage of them are 1.8s. What would be interesting to know is how many, over all, have failed?

From how I understand it the K series has a significant problem with the cooling of the head assembly. There are modifications around, for the water pump and the thermostat to tackle this. There is also an upgrade to the head gasket, so on the prevention front it can be argued for taking the head off before HGF has occurred and upgrade the gasket and location dowels before an actual event causes other issues.

No one can argue a particular car is perfect. I don't believe any Landrover is anywhere near earning such a label, Freelanders included. However, there are those members that strive to improve the design and I for one welcome that.

Northern Irelander · Mar 19, 2009

sorry but like MHM I've nothing more to add, take a look at MHM's 1.8 more data thread, it's all been covered before..........its just the search facility doesn't pick it up

Did I mention that I clocked up some serious mileage with minor hgf and passed it's MOT emissions with hgf?

redrenger89 · Mar 23, 2009

Thank's for your replies.

This is the sort of link I was looking for.

Freelander - Fix problems, repairs, diagrams, whats wrong, faults, upgrates - Land Rover

I think they mean updates

What do you think?

The Mad Hat Man · Mar 23, 2009

I am intrigued...............

redrenger89 said:
Prevention is better than cure, perhaps those members with the relevant expertise and knowledge would like to share their experiences with other concerned members who have or would like to prevent engine failure.

"The problem appears to have a basic underlying problem in that the cooling capacity in the cylinder jacket is too small."

not quite sure how one fixes that?

I spose yu cud steer clear of that injun?

redrenger89 · Mar 23, 2009

Thank's MHM
I thought you were not going to say anything.

The more I look into the Freelander the more I think TD4 rather than petrol, but I thought we should have a positive thread for all those poor souls that have the petrol version an may need help.

Coolant problems appear to be the main cause of engine failure.
There are a number of mods available including thermostat and new plumbing. The coolant reserve is very small and it has been mentioned that a larger tank could be included in any mod, but this is possibly what the new plumbing will do by adding more pipework.
Head fracture appears to be due to the thermostst opening too late and a sudden rush of cold from the rest of the system cause too much stress for the block. I believe the new stat opens at a lower temperature.

Simple solutions if they work, but only if an eye is kept on the coolant level and temperature. Perhaps an after market over temp indication is called for.

Fred

The Mad Hat Man · Mar 23, 2009

Dont get me wrong - I am all for redesigning and fixing stuff wherever possible, however I and lots of others have spent a huge amount of time and effort looking into the problems associated with the petrol K (and6) engines when fitted into the Hippoo and have, reluctantly, come to the conclusion that the major problems have been "designed into" the Engines in such a manner that the best option is to ditch the K series completely.
Sure there are good ones around, but the likelyhood of getting a duff one is such that peeps shud be forewarned that there is the highest probability that they too will get a duff one. If you want one - go into it with your eyes open and your wallet at the ready. The same with the transmission problems.

As for positive threads - Ming, N.I., I and many others have put a huge amount of information up here (In the Q's and A's bit) for people that can be bothered to look.

redrenger89 · Mar 23, 2009

Totaly agree.
But help for the poor sods that have one must be a good idea.
If owners are aware of the possible cause and are able to prevent some of the failure by spending a little cash on the mods and looking after the engine better maybe the car can last longer.

I think for anyone buying a Freelander the TD4 must be a better option.

As for the Q&A bits if I search for the Freelander options I get 4 Is there more?
Is this the correct link
http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/search.php?searchid=817623

This one Fit a PRRT is a good one for those that know what a PRRT is
http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f38/freelander-fit-prrt-57411.html

Nothing to do with Perth Roof Trusses or Petroleum Resource Tax or even http://www.theprrt.com/ maybe this link could help though.
Pressure Relief Remote Thermostat
But I think you should have a look at this one as well http://wiki.seloc.org/a/Pressure_Relief_Remote_Thermostat and look for the thermosts colours

And this one http://www.lrseries.com/shop/product/listing/9539/3305/10/PCH001190-HOSE-THEMOSTAT.html
And here is a PDF Bulletin http://www.mgfcar.de/hgf/freelander_0026.pdf

Fred

ratty · Mar 23, 2009

It's probably best to mention that there are 2 possible types of repair for HG failure on the K series.

Assuming that people are paying for a garage to do it rather than DIY it, there are £500-600 repairs and £1500 repairs. The cheaper one takes into account the replacement Hg only. The more expensive repair also includes replacing the cylinder liners.

Landrover themselves will not put a warranty on the work unless the liners are replaced too.

If you are looking for a 1.8 k series freelander and come across one where the liners have been replaced too, the chances are it will last much longer than a similar vehicle which has had purely the gasket changed.

Sean · Mar 23, 2009

still for looking for 300 parts MHM ?

Board Message=

redrenger89 · Mar 23, 2009

Ta Ratty

Correct
Quick bodge verses proper repair as long as the coolant mod is done as well.

See here http://www.myfreelander.co.uk/Engine/kengineprobs4.htm

Double that time and add a bit and a bit more and then you may have an idea how long it takes me to do anything

Does the kit come with new dowels etc to replace the broken plastic ones?

The Mad Hat Man · Mar 23, 2009

redrenger89 said:
Totaly agree.
But help for the poor sods that have one must be a good idea.
If owners are aware of the possible cause and are able to prevent some of the failure by spending a little cash on the mods and looking after the engine better maybe the car can last longer.

I think for anyone buying a Freelander the TD4 must be a better option.

I aint sure yu is listening!

for any prospective hippoo owner - we always say

"stay clear of the petrols - go for a TD4 (Or 'L')"
get the longest and most comprehensive warranty available.
check the turbo hoses.
regularly check VCU.

Petrol owners should change the headgasket and oil rail.
fit the remote thermostat (1.8)
fit an EWP
this will not stop sequential HGF.

and we still get regularly
"they cant be that bad - surely?" - YES THEY ARE!
"Ive just bought one" - DO YOUR RESEARCH BEFORE - NOT AFTER!

and that still doesnt cover the VCU (check it regularly)
Auto boxes overheating (they dont like towing without a bigger cooler)
chassis cracking (on a LANDROVER ffs!)
subframe attachment coming loose.
rear diff mounts going so often, some of us think they are made of cheese!
gearbox refilling a tortious and potentially lethal (to the gearbox) method (who ffs thought that was a good idea?)
Engine oil change requiring dismantling of the undertray.

and every 4 months we still get peeps who dont search but suggest "lets help the poor sods" - cant they search? Are Hippoo owners 10pence short of a quid?

redrenger89 · Mar 23, 2009

Sean
Can you post your password and login for that site as I would like to have a look?

Mark2 · Mar 23, 2009

redrenger89 said:
Sean
Can you post your password and login for that site as I would like to have a look?

Why not register yerself

Mark2 · Mar 23, 2009

Im busy looking for a paper bag to stop MHM hyper-ventilating

The Mad Hat Man · Mar 23, 2009

Sean said:
still for looking for 300 parts MHM ?

Board Message=

not me - Disco71 - ta Sean

I int hyper - just get tired of repeating myself every 3 months.

redrenger89 · Mar 23, 2009

That's cos you know how to find where you have hidden all the goodies MHM If you had a proper Index silly old sods like me would not have to ask.

When you step down from the soapbox I will buy you a pint at the get together we havn't had yet

Now you have been very helpful. Thanks

PS not everyone knows the k's are fitted to hippos

Sirus · Mar 23, 2009

Only half a pint, unless you want to keep him

The Mad Hat Man · Mar 23, 2009

redrenger89 said:
If you had a proper Index silly old sods like me would not have to ask.

Now its funny yu shud say that - but have you looked here?

and a tip for those of you peeps out there that dont know wot a pc is good for - change the Display Options - sorted by to "Thread title", coz if peeps are clevva (like wot I am) and change the sort order to "ascending", yu will find most of the freelander stuff comes up all together.

Or

you could just use the :search: facility and look in this section only for "freelander" - and that would work too - just like this.

How to prevent and repair K series Engine Failure

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