Help needed on non starting P38 DSE

I hoping you can help me and point me in the right direction, and tak the time to read about my faults!!

Been having a bad time lately, to help you help me it's a 1995 P38 range rover 2.5 DSE,

To start from the beginning incase it's all related, Monday my car was parked at work and one of the lads noticed my indicators were on (not flashing just on constantly) Tuesday my alarm went off for no reason and the dash said drivers door activated, then that night when i when to leave work the indicators were on constantly again unlocked it and they went out but the battery was flat and had to be jump started to get home (I already know that the battery isn't that good) I charged the battery all day wednesday and it was fine thursday until i came to leave work, waited for the glow plug light, started cranking but not a sniff,(Its not a great starter any way been meaning to do my glow plugs and leak off pipes for ages) but it normally fires then stop's and then starts on 3 or 4 smokes then clears and runs fine on all 6.

Well got it in the work shop today to check it, and there is no fuel coming out the injector pipes, (the filter is still full) checked the stop switch in the pump and it's got a live and took it out and it works by powering it up.

I tried checking the fault codes but i've got a dodgy 16 pin plug and it took me 20 min's to get the code reader to connect and it said no fault's (It may be lying if it didn't make connection properly)

I couple of questions about it, is there a electric lift pump in the tank, and also how does the immobiliser work (i take it it has one), If i'm getting power at the stop switch does that rule that out??

To give you some more history in to my unluck spell I've just had all the rad's out and fan off to replace the crank pulley + seal, water pump, thermostat and air con compressor, and aux belts. also a couple of months ago one morning when to go out after a night of heavy rain and i had a wet steering wheel drivers seal and front edge of dash (could be caused by the front sun roof drains blocked as it was park on a hill sloping forward)

Ill stop now think that's everything, Thanks for reading.

:violent:
Gordon Bennett Steve its a scrapper!. No it aint, but a 38 needs a good battery, and there is a pump in the tank. You will have to remove the tank to get at it, weekends usually best. Theres also a thermal switch inside the injector pump which can fail, this is a visit to your local Diesel expert though. Sorry for this if it sound a bit on the negative side, hope you get it sorted, Bazz.

Thank's i think, lol.

I've does some searches on the site and found out that the battery needs to be good, and also just found out about the pump i will test that first thing in the morning, if that thermal switch fails will that stop all fuel pumping,
Thanks for your help i'm not the best when it comes to diesels.

steve's P38 RR said:

To start from the beginning incase it's all related, Monday my car was parked at work and one of the lads noticed my indicators were on (not flashing just on constantly) Tuesday my alarm went off for no reason and the dash said drivers door activated, then that night when i when to leave work the indicators were on constantly again unlocked it and they went out but the battery was flat and had to be jump started to get home (I already know that the battery isn't that good) I charged the battery all day wednesday and it was fine thursday until i came to leave work, waited for the glow plug light, started cranking but not a sniff,(Its not a great starter any way been meaning to do my glow plugs and leak off pipes for ages) but it normally fires then stop's and then starts on 3 or 4 smokes then clears and runs fine on all 6.

Click to expand...

ok, first problem here is the indicators - if they were on constantly like you say you have the beginnings of possible BeCM failure. Has anything been spilt into the BeCM or similar, is there any obvious corrosion around it or its plugs?? The BeCM is the main 'brain' of the vehicle which sits under your drivers seat, looks like a very large ECU, it controls everything to do with lighting along with a load of other stuff, that is to say, when you turn on your lights or use your indicators, you dont directly activate them, you send a signal to the BeCM asking for them to be operated and the BeCM then outputs the correct feeds to enrgise the bulbs. With the indicators being permanently on this can indicate a fault inside the BeCM. You can get BeCM's re-conditioned by companies if it comes down to it - have you had the indicators on again??

steve's P38 RR said:

Well got it in the work shop today to check it, and there is no fuel coming out the injector pipes, (the filter is still full) checked the stop switch in the pump and it's got a live and took it out and it works by powering it up.

I tried checking the fault codes but i've got a dodgy 16 pin plug and it took me 20 min's to get the code reader to connect and it said no fault's (It may be lying if it didn't make connection properly)

I couple of questions about it, is there a electric lift pump in the tank, and also how does the immobiliser work (i take it it has one), If i'm getting power at the stop switch does that rule that out??

To give you some more history in to my unluck spell I've just had all the rad's out and fan off to replace the crank pulley + seal, water pump, thermostat and air con compressor, and aux belts. also a couple of months ago one morning when to go out after a night of heavy rain and i had a wet steering wheel drivers seal and front edge of dash (could be caused by the front sun roof drains blocked as it was park on a hill sloping forward)

Ill stop now think that's everything, Thanks for reading.

Click to expand...

Do you have a copy of RAVE, this contains the electrical manual for the vehicle which I think would really help you out.

Yes, the P38 does have an in-tank pump but these can fail but usually the vehicle will start and run even if its failed as the FIP can pull the diesel through. Pop open the under-bonnet fuse box and check relay 12 and fuse 39 (10amp). The feed to the fuel pump comes from fuse 39 and relay 12 controls the feed to the pump. If you remove the relay and unhook the fuel pipe going into the filter and manually apply voltage to the fuel pump you can easily test whether its working without having to drop the tank.

Is there any diesel in the clear pipe from the fuel filter to the FIP??

How did you check the ECU's, did you use Testbook or equivalent, i.e. Rovacom/Faultmate/Autologic etc?? A generic OBDII reader won't give you any stored fault codes I don't believe as I have read that the early diesels did not conform to OBDII standards. Not only that, with the proper diag equipment you will be able to see live data views of sensors etc to try and track down your problem.

If the immobiliser was stopping you from starting the message centre on the dashboard would be telling you, I don't actually think you are able to crank the vehicle over if its immobilised anyway. According to RAVE if the thermal sensor inside the FIP fails then it won't stop fuelling.

Lastly, when you P38 got soaked inside, did you notice whether any electronics got badly wet?? P38's hate water inside them, wires corrode and the ECU's all start getting upset. This maybe a possible cause of all your problems.

First thing I would do is get RAVE and go from there, see if you can find anyone to beg/borrow a diagnostic system from or pay a LR specialist a few ££ to get a print out of any and all faults. Good luck with it and keep us updated with it all, dont scrap it though, just remember how great it is when it all works

-Wills

Thanks for the advice wills, I have read about the BeCM going faulty when wet, but wouldn't of thought it would of got wet under the drivers seat but you never know, Is it ok just to unplug it to check connections etc, Do you have an idea of cost to get it re-conditioned. It has done the indicator thing twice that i know of.

I don't have a copy of rave where is the best place to get this from?

I don't think there is a prob with the in tank pump as you say it will prob still run and the fuel filter is full of fuel even tho the tank is quite near the red but the lights not on. and there is fuel in the clear pipe between the filter and injection pump.

I used a Sykes-Pickavant code reader to check the ecu's but after i'd told it what the car was it said something about wrong settings or something to say it wasn't connecting properly (i can't remember now) Any way it said no fault's but the live data was also wrong, as it said engine temp was -42 and battery volts 16.4 (car wasn't running), I dont know if its down to my corroded connections in my 16 pin plug in the car or using the wrong equipment. But i will solder a new one on today and try it again.

steve's P38 RR said:

I don't have a copy of rave where is the best place to get this from?

Click to expand...

Download RAVE from here:

The Green Oval - Downloads

steve's P38 RR said:

I used a Sykes-Pickavant code reader to check the ecu's but after i'd told it what the car was it said something about wrong settings or something to say it wasn't connecting properly (i can't remember now) Any way it said no fault's but the live data was also wrong, as it said engine temp was -42 and battery volts 16.4 (car wasn't running), I dont know if its done to my corroded connections in my 16 pin plug in the car or using the wrong equipment. But i will solder a new one on today and try it again.

Click to expand...

None of those "generic" OBDII interface units will work with the P38. Every now and then someone comes along thinking that they can make them work, but to the best of my knowlege, no-one has managed it yet.

The early P38 ECU's do not meet the standardised OBD-II message format so normal readers will return rubbish/meaningless results. Things may work better with the later (post Q4 '99) P38's with the Bosch ECU, but again, no-one I know of (me included) has tried it yet.

You need to find someone with the right kit, Textbook, Rovacom Lite or similar .......

hello,
my DSE had lost once the security code between EDC (engine ECU) and BECM due to low voltage. I had no dash messages and it cranked but did not fire.
I would hook it to a normal diagnostic computer like rovacom or t4 and give it a security relearn.
cheers, korkut

Right its took a while to get started due to being ill,

I've now fixed my diagnostic socket, and tried my coded reader again just to see what it said, no message this time saying about it wasn't connecting properly and the live date out put look right, it had 2 faults in the memory there are:

27 Anti - theft device intermittent too high

0 unknown error

live data was showing:

boost pressure 882

atmos pressure 882

E.C.T. -27

fuel temp. 4

inj. quantity 0

the others looked right but can some one take a look over these and tell me if there wrong ect seems low and not sure about the pressure ones.

Also can someone confirm how the immobiliser works is it the remote unlocking that turns it off or chip in the key that connects with a senser on the ignition lock, and what does it cut out, Im asking cause of the fault code that came up and that one min it was ok then just wouldn't start,

Also can the BeCM just be unplugged with out causing any proplems when i plug it back in ( so i can check connections etc) and also could this be connected to the non start.

thanks again in advance, i just wanna get it fixed now.

Kork was right.

Is it only the GEMS petrol vehicles that dont crank when the code is lost then??

-Wills

wills said:

Is it only the GEMS petrol vehicles that dont crank when the code is lost then??

-Wills

Click to expand...

Yes, the petrol Motronic 99-02 ones crank and all diesels 95-02 will crank too.

Fixed thanks everyone,
Took it to mansfields my local land rover specialist (great guys) they put it on there diagnostics and came up engine immobilised, he done the re-learn thingy and job done she fired, now just need to do my glow plugs.

Thanks again, Hopefully i won't back with another prob too quickly.