Header tank full of oil

This site contains affiliate links for which LandyZone may be compensated if you make a purchase.

raisingveg

Well-Known Member
Posts
420
Location
bedfordshire
Hi all
Have just been on 150 mile trip in my defender 90 iv got home and I've noticed two pools of oil as I was unpacking.
It drove and sounded spot on all the way home temp gauge was normal all the way as well.
Ive checked the dipstick an the sump is bone dry. I know I'm going to have to stick it in the garage but can any of the learned give me a few pointers as to what possible causes could be
Cheers
 
Hi all
Have just been on 150 mile trip in my defender 90 iv got home and I've noticed two pools of oil as I was unpacking.
It drove and sounded spot on all the way home temp gauge was normal all the way as well.
Ive checked the dipstick an the sump is bone dry. I know I'm going to have to stick it in the garage but can any of the learned give me a few pointers as to what possible causes could be
Cheers
Sounds like your oil cooler is fubar.
 
Hi all
Have just been on 150 mile trip in my defender 90 iv got home and I've noticed two pools of oil as I was unpacking.
It drove and sounded spot on all the way home temp gauge was normal all the way as well.
Ive checked the dipstick an the sump is bone dry. I know I'm going to have to stick it in the garage but can any of the learned give me a few pointers as to what possible causes could be
Cheers

Yep. In rad oil cooler knackered.
 
In that case it will be as Turboman says, knackered rad.
Once rad replaced refill with plain water and a dishwasher tablet drive for a few days, drain and refill, repeat until its clean enough for anti freeze mix to go in.
 
In that case it will be as Turboman says, knackered rad.
Once rad replaced refill with plain water and a dishwasher tablet drive for a few days, drain and refill, repeat until its clean enough for anti freeze mix to go in.

What he said except the dishwasher tablet, dishwasher tablets are a strong alkali, basically sodium hydroxide which is caustic and will strip the aluminium and can continue to do so for a while after it's been flushed through with clean water. It would relentlessly eat the aluminium and around seals and gaskets could make enough of a difference to start leaks or get it closer - it can also destroy some rubbers etc.

I would use washing machine powder (won't foam) or a small amount of fairy, but still you should flush it through well.
 
thanks for the replies
someone said to me remove the rad and flush with diesel and then white spirits to clean it through
or is this not on ,also a m8 is coming to check it over friday
 
thanks for the replies
someone said to me remove the rad and flush with diesel and then white spirits to clean it through
or is this not on ,also a m8 is coming to check it over friday

I would go with the detergent.

And by all means let yer mate look at it, but I don't think there is much doubt about what is causing it.
 
thanks for the replies
someone said to me remove the rad and flush with diesel and then white spirits to clean it through
or is this not on ,also a m8 is coming to check it over friday
Oil cooler is part of the radiator, so you'll be getting a new one anyway. It took me a few attempts to get rid of all the oil from my cooling system after my cooler failed, even a tiny drop of oil will show up as a slick in the expansion tank!
 
thanks for the replies
someone said to me remove the rad and flush with diesel and then white spirits to clean it through
or is this not on ,also a m8 is coming to check it over friday

That is probably about as bad as dishwasher tablets. It's like people who put copper slip on brake piston seals - back of the pad yes - seals no! I spend a lot of time assessing materials and their suitability for applications and it truly shocks me sometimes when you discover how unsuitable a material is for a particular application.

The issues with vehicles is that they need to do so many things, they need a coolant system and associated components that can withstand extremes, they need the gaskets, seals, metals everything going on in there to be happy to be bathed in a slightly acidic soup of water, ethylene glycol, nitrates, silicates etc. If you look at the chemicals used and their impact on materials you would probably not want to use it. But all parts will be designed to withstand this soup - add hydrocarbons like diesel and white spirit (more or less highly refined kero) to your system and you now have a problem.

If you look at the rubbers used for different seals in a vehicle you will see they are almost always unsuitable as a 1 for all material. Brake seals are usually EDPM, which is great for weather resistance, low temperature flexibility and heat resistance but will be destroyed by petroleum products, oil & solvents.Then take Viton (Flurocarbon rubber) which is often used as engine/gearbox oil seals - it is one of the best at abrasion resistance which is ideal for moving shafts but it is not actually the best by far, the best rubbers for dynamic use or abrasion resistance are not suitable for use with oils! Viton doesn't actually like fuels much, happy with oil and grease though, for fuel you want Nitrile however, it doesn't much like a lot of heat (about 100°C max) and doesn't like being exposed to the weather or ozone even then there are better rubbers for use with fuel but other parameters let them down.

I like all these technical details and I find they are useful to know when reading the make up of an O-ring or seal as you know how well or not it will work in your given application.

The radiator is almost certainly FUBAR anyway, unless you are unlucky and it is a oil gallery to water jacket leak on the head gasket. The engine is obviously going to need coolant and oil change (I'd think about a flush too if water is present) You are going to need to take pipes and what not off anyway I would drop the rad now, force water into it while blocking the other side, and see if water starts to pee out of the oil cooler ports - if so carry the rad straight to the wheelie bin and start the clean up. I would do a rough clean up first, removing the stat will help, force water through the engine with a hose while adding a little soap, I would even be tempted to make a bypass pipe where the radiator should be, so you can fill the engine with clean water and a little soap and run it for a minute, then dump all the water, flush it, and repeat, think of it as a dishwasher cycle - the oil pipes should not pass any oil as they only flow when there the oil needs cooled and the oil stat opens, it is a slight risk as you may end up with oil shooting out, but it should be fine. Remember to make sure there is some oil in the engine first - is there any sign of water in the oil?
 
That is probably about as bad as dishwasher tablets. It's like people who put copper slip on brake piston seals - back of the pad yes - seals no! I spend a lot of time assessing materials and their suitability for applications and it truly shocks me sometimes when you discover how unsuitable a material is for a particular application.

The issues with vehicles is that they need to do so many things, they need a coolant system and associated components that can withstand extremes, they need the gaskets, seals, metals everything going on in there to be happy to be bathed in a slightly acidic soup of water, ethylene glycol, nitrates, silicates etc. If you look at the chemicals used and their impact on materials you would probably not want to use it. But all parts will be designed to withstand this soup - add hydrocarbons like diesel and white spirit (more or less highly refined kero) to your system and you now have a problem.

If you look at the rubbers used for different seals in a vehicle you will see they are almost always unsuitable as a 1 for all material. Brake seals are usually EDPM, which is great for weather resistance, low temperature flexibility and heat resistance but will be destroyed by petroleum products, oil & solvents.Then take Viton (Flurocarbon rubber) which is often used as engine/gearbox oil seals - it is one of the best at abrasion resistance which is ideal for moving shafts but it is not actually the best by far, the best rubbers for dynamic use or abrasion resistance are not suitable for use with oils! Viton doesn't actually like fuels much, happy with oil and grease though, for fuel you want Nitrile however, it doesn't much like a lot of heat (about 100°C max) and doesn't like being exposed to the weather or ozone even then there are better rubbers for use with fuel but other parameters let them down.

I like all these technical details and I find they are useful to know when reading the make up of an O-ring or seal as you know how well or not it will work in your given application.

The radiator is almost certainly FUBAR anyway, unless you are unlucky and it is a oil gallery to water jacket leak on the head gasket. The engine is obviously going to need coolant and oil change (I'd think about a flush too if water is present) You are going to need to take pipes and what not off anyway I would drop the rad now, force water into it while blocking the other side, and see if water starts to pee out of the oil cooler ports - if so carry the rad straight to the wheelie bin and start the clean up. I would do a rough clean up first, removing the stat will help, force water through the engine with a hose while adding a little soap, I would even be tempted to make a bypass pipe where the radiator should be, so you can fill the engine with clean water and a little soap and run it for a minute, then dump all the water, flush it, and repeat, think of it as a dishwasher cycle - the oil pipes should not pass any oil as they only flow when there the oil needs cooled and the oil stat opens, it is a slight risk as you may end up with oil shooting out, but it should be fine. Remember to make sure there is some oil in the engine first - is there any sign of water in the oil?


It might not leak out the oil cooler ports under hose pipe test as the oil pressure is going to be roughly 4 times the coolant pressure
 
What he said except the dishwasher tablet, dishwasher tablets are a strong alkali, basically sodium hydroxide which is caustic and will strip the aluminium and can continue to do so for a while after it's been flushed through with clean water. It would relentlessly eat the aluminium and around seals and gaskets could make enough of a difference to start leaks or get it closer - it can also destroy some rubbers etc.

I would use washing machine powder (won't foam) or a small amount of fairy, but still you should flush it through well.


I didnt know that, few truck ones Ive done its was a litre or two of CTFR in the header tank and many miles later that got them clean.
 
I didnt know that, few truck ones Ive done its was a litre or two of CTFR in the header tank and many miles later that got them clean.

Traffic film remover? It may be "gentle" enough to do the trick as it "should" be Ph neutral or close enough. Ever get dishwasher tablet powder residue on your fingers then try and wash it off, it goes a bit slimey, that the caustic nature of the tablet actually reacting with skin oils to create soap, it reacts as fast as that with things like aluminium.

TFR actually may be a excellent way of doing it. Remember it is paint "friendly" I would not wash my car with DW tablets - well maybe the 90 when it has algae on the roof again!
 
That sounds about right, but it would not be impossible, oil will be going into the water under pressure.
As soon as the engine is shut off oil pressure will vanish but the rad will still have significant pressure and can blow back into the oil. I had a oil cooler fail on a Focus and the cooling system accepted some oil and didn't burst. I only found it when I pulled the dipstick for my daily checks and found mayonnaise on the end of the stick.
 
Traffic film remover? It may be "gentle" enough to do the trick as it "should" be Ph neutral or close enough. Ever get dishwasher tablet powder residue on your fingers then try and wash it off, it goes a bit slimey, that the caustic nature of the tablet actually reacting with skin oils to create soap, it reacts as fast as that with things like aluminium.

TFR actually may be a excellent way of doing it. Remember it is paint "friendly" I would not wash my car with DW tablets - well maybe the 90 when it has algae on the roof again!


Yes TFR, it can be strong stuff, I use it 50/50 with water in a squirty bottle to clean my alloys, as its not acidic and doesnt take the finish off of the brake callipers.
It may be paint friendly but it does strip any polish off you have applied.
 
As for cleaning the system most coolants are moderately alkaline and unless excessive amounts of base are added it wont attack the metal. I've had good results cleaning engines by using water dosed with a bottle of ammonia cleaner - it doesn't foam and will easily remove oils by converting them into soap. The coolant hoses and seals wont be attacked by it either. I wouldn't use any form of lye as this will go after all the aluminium in the system with great rapidity.
 
Back
Top