Freelander 1 Head gasket vs inlet manifold gasket

Alibro said:

Try using the dishwasher if you really want to get her mad.

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That's precisely what got me in trouble while I was rebuilding the v12...

Doh! Doh! Doh!!!!!!
Was prepping the wifes K series for MOT and guess what? Yup, header tank was empty! No idea why as I checked it a couple of weeks ago and it was fine, so filled it, bled it and started looking for the leak. No sign of leaking water anywhere, even took off the undertray and checked all hoses and still no sign. Have driven a hundred miles or so since and no probs so hoping it is a dodgy header tank cap. I heard it hissing at one point as the engine was cooling so changed it and fingers crossed.

Anyway right now I feel your pain.

Hahaha, i step away for a few days and you guys treat me to pictures of your kitchens!! Luckily i have my own place so nobody to moan at me if i make a mess, swings and roundabouts.

So i've driven about 100 miles and taken the first batch of oil out and swapped the oil filter. The old one was very heavy and very full so don't think it was actually doing anything. The new oil came out black and had a tonne of sludge in the bottom so it's starting to sound a lot quieter now it's running cleaner and sounded pretty happy on tickover on the driveway this evening.

Hows it running?
Well my coolant level dropped about a cm the first day, so i topped it up and its been rock solid between max/min ever since! The expansion tank doesn't seem to pressurise at all save for the smallest little hiss as it's first opened, it's literally a fraction of the pressure it was at before. I was opening it to check after each time it had cooled down just to be safe but i left it for about 60 miles and 4-5 trips without opening it and it had no pressure in there again tonight so looks like that problem is well and truly cured!

It has had a few niggles. On occasion when starting it revs up to about 2.5k and doesn't stop until i wiggle the connector going to the throttle sensor or wiggle the air hose from the cam cover to the throttle body then it suddenly drops to normal running. I took the sensor plug off tonight and gave it a good blast with contact cleaner and srayed the same down the cam hoses as well. Both hoses seemed clear so i'm hoping i'd just spilt something on the sensor plug. Engine ran pretty rough for the first few days as the oil was circulating round. Going to have to keep an eye on it though as one of my oil starved camshafts was pretty worn (pics to follow). The biggest issue it seems is that it seems fine up till about 50mph, then everything above that is a crawl. I can't get to 70mph and maintain it up a hill like i used to and going past 70mph is almost not going to happen where as before it would get up to 70 just fine and would hit 80-90mph without really worrying about it. Any ideas on where i should be looking for that? Fuel filter hasn't been changed since i got the car a year ago and i'm not sure if it was done anytime before that, it's also run dry a couple of times in the past few weeks due to a sticky fuel gauge needle (fixed last week) so may have sucked some gunk up.

Uncontrolled revving and lack of power kinda sounds like you've got an air leak somewhere.
The K series can't deal with air leaks very well - did you plug all the vacuum hoses back in, including the brake servo?

That's the one that gets me every. single. time.

Right now the K powered freelander is running beautifully... the RX8 has started playing up though.
Left it too long between runs and I think the battery is goosed, dash lit up like a Christmas tree, electrical gremlins all over the shop and it's suddenly taking an age to start.
Usually I'd be worried about engine failure bla bla but this was kinda sudden - think I need a new battery and a proper storage charger.

B34R said:

Uncontrolled revving and lack of power kinda sounds like you've got an air leak somewhere.
The K series can't deal with air leaks very well - did you plug all the vacuum hoses back in, including the brake servo?

That's the one that gets me every. single. time.

Right now the K powered freelander is running beautifully... the RX8 has started playing up though.
Left it too long between runs and I think the battery is goosed, dash lit up like a Christmas tree, electrical gremlins all over the shop and it's suddenly taking an age to start.
Usually I'd be worried about engine failure bla bla but this was kinda sudden - think I need a new battery and a proper storage charger.

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I didn't really unplug any of the vacuum hoses i dont think, just pushed the inlet manifold out the way and took the head out. I might have disturbed a hose though so i will check it all after work. I took the sensor cable out and cleaned it off but it was high revving again last night, trip to work this morning it ran like normal though so no idea whats happening.

Quick trip down the motorway this morning and it struggled to get up to 70mph again up the slightest of long hills and into oncoming wind. The opposite direction the wind helped it get up to 90ish but there was a quiet yet high pitched whistle coming from the back of the car, sounded like it was inside. Was able to reproduce the noise in 4th going past 50mph so it seems to come into play around 3100rpm (my 60mph in 5th). Wondering if my fuel pump might be dying after the tank ran dry a couple of times a few weeks ago...

Alibro said:

Doh! Doh! Doh!!!!!!
Was prepping the wifes K series for MOT and guess what? Yup, header tank was empty! No idea why as I checked it a couple of weeks ago and it was fine, so filled it, bled it and started looking for the leak. No sign of leaking water anywhere, even took off the undertray and checked all hoses and still no sign. Have driven a hundred miles or so since and no probs so hoping it is a dodgy header tank cap. I heard it hissing at one point as the engine was cooling so changed it and fingers crossed.

Anyway right now I feel your pain.

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Whoops, doesnt sound great!! I have to be honest though, i did rather enjoying replacing the gasket. Its the lack of power now thats bugging me.

Nodge68 said:

The scoring you mentioned look acceptable. The cross hatch pattern is perfectly normal, added at manufacture to bed the piston rings in. It's presence shows that little cylinder wear has taken place.

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That would make sense, the car itself is on 172k miles but my dad found a rover test bed engine a couple of years ago that only had 40-45k on it and had it fitted when his old block was scrap.

Have you double checked the cam pulleys are lined up correctly? Not sure but I think it will still go with one tooth out but not well.
revving might be idle control valve, It has a fat hose going to the throttle body. A few squirts of WD40 fixed it for me.
I enjoyed the job too but a bit confused were the leak is now.

For your lack of power. I'd be double checking the cam timing. The crank pulley mark has been known to be in the wrong place so the locking dowel in the flywheel is better. The cam pulley markers aren't much more accurate either. It's much better to use the actual valve lift points and a timing disc to get a true timing figure.

Nodge68 said:

For your lack of power. I'd be double checking the cam timing. The crank pulley mark has been known to be in the wrong place so the locking dowel in the flywheel is better. The cam pulley markers aren't much more accurate either. It's much better to use the actual valve lift points and a timing disc to get a true timing figure.

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I find the marks for TDC very confusing on these engines. When you pull the crank pulley off the mark seems to point to a different position.
This page is very good and worth a look.
http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=395705

Alibro said:

I find the marks for TDC very confusing on these engines. When you pull the crank pulley off the mark seems to point to a different position.
This page is very good and worth a look.
http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=395705

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The actual timing marks used aren't at TDC. They are set at 90° BTDC iirc. This is done to give a "safe" area for the cams to be turned during the timing procedure. However it means that timing is reliant on accurate marks, which isn't always the case. It's quite possible for either cam to be advanced or retarded by 1 tooth which is about 7°iirc. The engine will still run but not at optimum performance.

Yeah, i aligned it with the two dots using the crank pulley sprocket and had the inlet/exhaust lined up. i put the timing belt over the inlet/exhaust first and kept it tight right down to the crank pulley. Then wiggled it up past the water pump and tensioner. I can't see what i could have done wrong with regards to the timing, if anything i thought it was slightly out BEFORE i started the job as when the inlet/exhaust were lined up the crank pulley line was either on or a little past the right hand of the two dots on the engine block.

Okay, so i've whipped the covers off to take another look. With the two dots on the crank pulley lined up with the centreline on the engine block, my two cams appear to be half a tooth out of sync with each other. Have i done something wrong?

doesnt matter anyway, tried the belt a couple more times and the allen bolt hole on the tensioner snapped. ******* brilliant.

Oops!
If they look out by half a tooth then you're belt is one tooth out on one of the pulleys, that would explain the performance issue. Easy done while trying to refit the belt. Took me 3 or four goes to get it right, use a mirror to check them.
Sorry to hear about the allen bolt but you need to refit the belt anyway so finding a bolt to fit shouldn't too hard.

It was the actual allen key hole on the auto tensioner, the one you use to set the tension! I had the tensioner in the right place, held the allen key in one hand and went to tighten the main bolt with my other hand and it just went bang, snapped clean through the allen key slot. Managed to bodge it on with a screwdriver setting the tension (instead of the allen key) and i'll have to get a new tensioner at some point. Tried the cam belt at least 6 times now and always looks half a tooth out on the cams when the crank pulley is lined up. With the crank pulley perfectly lined up, this is what the cams look like after a couple of clockwise rotations....

You're one tooth out mate, probably on the exhaust cam. When fitting it I found I had to crank it back a bit (clockwise) so there was enough slack to let me fit it. You'll never stretch the belt enough to get it around the exhaust cam if it is in the correct position. Then with the belt on I tightened it so the belt could go around the inlet cam. It is a pig but needs to be right.

If you shine a torch down between the two sprockets, there's a line on the plastic that the two marked teeth on the sprockets should line up with.

Other than that, use a straight edge - it should line up with all the inner and outer marks if you've done it correctly.

This can be a right bastard to time properly if it fights back - I always time it by putting the bolt back in the timing pulley without the aux belt pulley, putting the belt on and then spinning the crank twice. Check, check, recheck.
If it's a tooth out or so, it'll jump out noticeably after the second rotation.

Also, don't turn the crank backwards during timing - weird things happen. If you miss the timing marks, go around again.
And finally, when checking the timing marks on the crank, don't do it by eye as you can't get your head in the right place, use the camera on your phone from the wheelarch or closer - in line with the crank. If you do it by eye the crank can look perfectly aligned but will be half a tooth out of place.

Alibro said:

You're one tooth out mate, probably on the exhaust cam. When fitting it I found I had to crank it back a bit (clockwise) so there was enough slack to let me fit it. You'll never stretch the belt enough to get it around the exhaust cam if it is in the correct position. Then with the belt on I tightened it so the belt could go around the inlet cam. It is a pig but needs to be right.

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So you're saying line up the crank shaft dots. Fit the belt to the crank shaft, move the exhaust cam round one tooth clockwise (from being aligned to inlet cam) and pull the belt over, then turn the exhaust cam back a touch anticlockwise to take up the slack between crank/exhaust cam so i can loop the inlet one in normally?

Its such a pain because the guy who did the youtube video just looped it all over and it fit fine, no excessive tension needed.

B34R said:

If you shine a torch down between the two sprockets, there's a line on the plastic that the two marked teeth on the sprockets should line up with.

Other than that, use a straight edge - it should line up with all the inner and outer marks if you've done it correctly.

This can be a right bastard to time properly if it fights back - I always time it by putting the bolt back in the timing pulley without the aux belt pulley, putting the belt on and then spinning the crank twice. Check, check, recheck.
If it's a tooth out or so, it'll jump out noticeably after the second rotation.

Also, don't turn the crank backwards during timing - weird things happen. If you miss the timing marks, go around again.
And finally, when checking the timing marks on the crank, don't do it by eye as you can't get your head in the right place, use the camera on your phone from the wheelarch or closer - in line with the crank. If you do it by eye the crank can look perfectly aligned but will be half a tooth out of place.

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Yeah i've done it that way so far. Wheel off, car raised so direct line of sight to the crank pulley and doing the timing with the aux pulley removed. I just cannot for the life of me get the cams correct. How tight should it be between the crank/exhaust cam? Are you saying the belt shouldnt just slip over that section when everything is lined up?