Freelander 1 Head gasket vs inlet manifold gasket

Hi guys, my freelander has been running a bit bad last week. It passed the MOT on the 15th with no problems at all but two days later i started noticing excessive smoke out the exhaust along with lots of water being thrown out. The exhaust soaked the floor underneath in a good 2-3foot square area and the white smoke was when the engine got hot and especially so if the revs were increased. I figured its burning coolant as the level is changing so figured seeing as my head gasket went six months ago and they said it might not last i'd get a head gasket kit and replace it. So i've taken the inlet manifold off and the seal looks pretty bad. Trapped in a few places and split in two, although i don't know if this was pre or post removal.

Took the cam cover off expecting mayo everywhere and it's gleaming with oil and spotless inside. Not a sign of mayo anywhere.

Could it be as simple as replacing the inlet manifold gasket and rebleeding the coolant? Just wanting to double check it'd be safe to try thaqt first and if it doesn't sort the problem, do the head gasket later in the week....

Thanks in advance

Yes do the inlet gasket, make sure jiggle valve is clear, blow down pipe, and check the coolant pressure cap, and then bleed well, fingers crossed

I used to see this so often. The first thing people say is HG. But you have done the correct thing by looking at the manifold gasket first. It's a dreadful design that simply isn't up to scratch. I know of several folks changing the plastic manifold for the alloy version from the MGF. This pretty much cures the problem as the alloy jobby uses a proper paper gasket.

Okay so i've changed the inlet manifold gasket, fired the car u and let it idle back up to temperature again. The smokey exhaust remained

Went for a 2 mile drive with the heaters on and keeping it to 3-3500 revs and when i got home there was no more smokey exhaust... success!!!

until the car had been idling again for about 10 minutes after which the smokey exhaust returned. With the cap off the header tank, no air pressure in the top bleed nipple and the heaters on it'll idle for a good 15 minutes with no problems, save for some smoke from the exhaust. If the heaters are turned off inside the fluid in the expansion tank suddenly rushes up to over flow. Opening the heaters again settles it down and it tried rising by a cm or so but then goes back down. If i turn the car off the header tank sinks again and bubbles can be heard. It doesn't seem to be losing water, but displacing it when the heaters aren't switched on. At which point the car will pressurise both the header tank and the top bleed nipple.

Any ideas?

It needs more bleeding
Oh at this time of year, steam from the exhaust is pretty normal. It's only condensation from the fuel burning mixing with the moisture in the air.

Its a lot of steam.... About half of this...

If its billowing out of the exhaust and you're not losing coolant, the two don't sound related.

Unless it's oil... Has the level on the dipstick moved?

Pull the spark plugs out, is one noticeably cleaner or more oily than the rest?

Well i went into panic mode and didn't drive the car more than the 2 miles each way to work so haven't noticed any lost coolant. The exhaust is definitely putting out water and steam but i'll whip the spark plugs out tomorrow and take a picture. It feels more like it's drawing in air/moisture somewhere and creating an airlock than anything else, could it be a dropped liner or cracked head?

Steam isn't uncommon at this time of year, particularly on short journeys. The exhaust system on the Freelander is quite long and looses heat readily. This cools the exhaust gasses to below the condensation point. When the air in the atmosphere is moisture laden, condensation increases for 2 reasons. Firstly more moisture is ingested by the engine, adding to the moisture in the exhaust gas content. Secondly the increased moisture around the tail pipe helps condense the moisture in the gasses. This gives the impression of loosing water when there's often nothing to worry about.
I do think that the cooling system needs proper bleeding as it's sounds like it's got air in it.
A leaking liner would allow water into the oil, turning it milky.

krisboats said:

Hi guys, my freelander has been running a bit bad last week. It passed the MOT on the 15th with no problems at all but two days later i started noticing excessive smoke out the exhaust along with lots of water being thrown out. The exhaust soaked the floor underneath in a good 2-3foot square area and the white smoke was when the engine got hot and especially so if the revs were increased. I figured its burning coolant as the level is changing so figured seeing as my head gasket went six months ago and they said it might not last i'd get a head gasket kit and replace it. So i've taken the inlet manifold off and the seal looks pretty bad. Trapped in a few places and split in two, although i don't know if this was pre or post removal.

Took the cam cover off expecting mayo everywhere and it's gleaming with oil and spotless inside. Not a sign of mayo anywhere.

Could it be as simple as replacing the inlet manifold gasket and rebleeding the coolant? Just wanting to double check it'd be safe to try thaqt first and if it doesn't sort the problem, do the head gasket later in the week....

Thanks in advance

Click to expand...

I've just had a similar problem, the day after my MOT! Had blocked oilways forcing oil straight out the exhaust and thereby burning off in the exhaust, mucho smoke out the back but only after about 3 miles, before that I guess the exhaust wasn't hot enough to burn the oil. I'm also losing coolant at an alarming rate but cant find where from, had the HG sniff tested and came back clean. After I'd flushed the oilways it took about 40 miles of late night driving to burn the oil off in the exhaust, still whiffs a bit now, 2 weeks on. Still no idea about the coolant though.

I bet the problem has been caused by the mot man revving the engine so long while testing emissions I noticed some black bits in the header tank after the mot on the wife 1800 but all is well and no lasting problem the black bit I gather are from the previous head gasket change.

Right, so a little update. I've been keeping a VERY careful eye on the car so far. I can replicate the problem without fail now so someone might be able to shed a little further light on it.

If i have the heaters switched onto warm and drive constantly the car runs fine and no smoke can be seen out the exhaust. The car can handle multiple journeys without losing much/any coolant i just have to release the pressure in the expansion tank when the engine has cooled. Removing the header cap when cool results in a small 1-2 second hiss and coolant level barely changes. Checking the radiator return bleed screw if driven in this way will not produce any air.

If the car sits at idle with the heaters on (so the 1 i spent driving 12 miles and around the city a little bit in rush hour) then the coolant disappears pretty rapidly (that example run emptied the header tank to just above the bottom hole), smoke can be seen from the exhaust while in traffic and a lot of smoke is produced upon acceleration and no air produced from radiator return bleed screw.

If the heaters are off and idling the car produces smoke within 5 minutes of being started up, the coolant level in the expansion tank tries to raise and air is produced from the radiator return bleed screw once the engine is cooled and switched off.



So the constant symptoms are that the expansion tank is not releasing pressure once the engine has cooled. And that having the internal heaters on seems to alleviate the symptoms massively. The engine works fine if the car is moving, but sitting at idle with the engine on is where the problems seem to be occurring. Coolant has remained clear and without oily residue in the expansion tank. Oil cap sometimes has a small amount of mayo in the top, but it goes once the engine is warm so i'm thinking it's probably just normal condensation build up. Oil is otherwise clear.

Could the header tank cap be causing some of the problems? Is it possible for it to be stuck shut and causing too much pressure? Also if having the internal heaters on makes a big difference could it be that my main radiator is blocked somewhere?

Nodge68 said:

Steam isn't uncommon at this time of year, particularly on short journeys. The exhaust system on the Freelander is quite long and looses heat readily. This cools the exhaust gasses to below the condensation point. When the air in the atmosphere is moisture laden, condensation increases for 2 reasons. Firstly more moisture is ingested by the engine, adding to the moisture in the exhaust gas content. Secondly the increased moisture around the tail pipe helps condense the moisture in the gasses. This gives the impression of loosing water when there's often nothing to worry about.
I do think that the cooling system needs proper bleeding as it's sounds like it's got air in it.
A leaking liner would allow water into the oil, turning it milky.

Click to expand...

So i guess that rules out a leaky liner then. Oil is still clear... well black and in need of a change.... but mayo free.

When the smoke is going it's far more than any other cars on the road by a considerable amount. I added a bottle of k-seal when this first happened in an attempt to buy some time but it doesn't appear to have helped in any way. At a push the amount of smoke might be less than it was without the k-seal but it still does it.

K-seal is a no no for the K series engine. The coolant channels are just to small and it blocks things it shouldn't, making the situation worse.

Nodge68 said:

K-seal is a no no for the K series engine. The coolant channels are just to small and it blocks things it shouldn't, making the situation worse.

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Well it's not like it was running properly anyway Figured if it worked for a bit, then great. If not, well i was going to need to strip it down anyway so can just clean it all off.

Something is causing the extra pressure in the coolant system and by now you've probably come to the same conclusion the rest of us already came to.
It's the head gasket.

If doing it yourself I'd suggest you go for the Payne elastomer type as it is more likely to work without problems. And spend plenty of time cleaning all the surfaces with a scotch pad.
Good luck.

Alibro said:

Something is causing the extra pressure in the coolant system and by now you've probably come to the same conclusion the rest of us already came to.
It's the head gasket.

If doing it yourself I'd suggest you go for the Payne elastomer type as it is more likely to work without problems. And spend plenty of time cleaning all the surfaces with a scotch pad.
Good luck.

Click to expand...

Would i need to use the head saver shim with the elastomer gasket as the head has been skimmed back in january

krisboats said:

Would i need to use the head saver shim with the elastomer gasket as the head has been skimmed back in january

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Simple answer is no. But use the blue elastomer Payen gasket for safety. Just make sure everything is clean and don't turn the crankshaft while the head is off. Remember that the liners are only held in place by a non setting sealant which if disturbed, requires a complete strip down.

B34R said:

If its billowing out of the exhaust and you're not losing coolant, the two don't sound related.

Unless it's oil... Has the level on the dipstick moved?

Pull the spark plugs out, is one noticeably cleaner or more oily than the rest?

Click to expand...

Number one looks a lot darker. None of them were wet, just very black. Mind you they've been in there over a year and already been through one HGF so may have been from that.

Got an MLS gasket kit sat on the side here from gaskets for classics. Just about to order a payen bw750 gasket so i've got one of each type here and waiting. As soon as the payen arrives and the weather holds off for an afternoon i'll take the adventure into head gasket replacement. When the gasket was done in january the garage did warn me that one of the liners had dropped slightly, so it could be that the elastomer was needed over the MLS.

Any other bits i need before i take it all apart?

So far i have:
MLS gasket
Head bolts
Valve stem seals
Camshaft seals
inlet/exhaust manifold gaskets.
spanners/sockets etc

I've read i need some loctite for the head/cam carrier when i refit that section, anybody know the specific loctite number or a recommendation for a similar gasket/sealant?