Government duck you over and over and over

trax99 said:

mate of mines got a tank on his license.

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My old dad is in his 80's and has to get his licence updated every few years, he was so ****ed off last time his was renewed he noticed they had removed the entitlement to drive tanks.

Beneagles said:

We've been pretty steady over the summer...enough that new trucks are back on the agenda.
Large percentage of breakdowns seem to be on cars < 5 years old....shocking! but my pet hate is "puncture, no spare!!!" The big boys will be hurting with that one...£300+ recoveries...just coz the bloody manufaturers want to save £50 a car...and the great british public never think of insisting on a spare!

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Some new cars don't even have a place to store a spare :doh:

minidod said:

Can you read more than 2 lines of text.



I passed my licence in Sept 99 but I have still been able to drive minibuses for charitys, BECAUSE I READ THE RULES. Rather than just going off half cocked shouting my mouth off with less than half an idea of what is going on.

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Your just an argumentative cock rash... let's be honest! Whats the point of getting so aggressive. I haven't asked for your opinion and I STILL THINK YOUR WRONG!

1. The vehicle is not older than 30 years old FACT NUMBER 1
2. It is not classed as a mini bus (the points i, ii, iii, etc all the conditions related to a mini bus - READ IT! ) a LR is not classed as a mini bus FACT NUMBER 2!!!!

You may read the rules - but you dont ****in understand them! I dont care about you driving ****ing mini buses whats that got to do with a car ?? Hello

Category B
Motor vehicles with a MAM of up to 3,500 kg, no more than eight passenger seats, with or without a trailer - weighing no more than 750 kg
17* The vehicles you can drive or ride and minimum ages : Directgov - Motoring

David Stoner said:

1. The vehicle is not older than 30 years old FACT NUMBER 1
2. It is not classed as a mini bus (the points i, ii, iii, etc all the conditions related to a mini bus - READ IT! ) a LR is not classed as a mini bus FACT NUMBER 2!!!!

You may read the rules - but you dont ****in understand them! I dont care about you driving ****ing mini buses whats that got to do with a car ?? Hello

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It's a public forum, there for you asked everyone on here for their opinion you retarded little scrote

You came on mumping that you can't get insurace to drive a 12 seater 110 CSW without a minibus licence, then when I point out that you don't need a minbus licence you tell us that it not registered as a minibus. So then you don't need a minibus licence to drive it. Where is the problem, get insurance for the vehicle you want.

Right... DVLGay say... number of seats category B entitles you to is 8 passenger seats (they may be 9 in total with a driver but i didn't ask)

They did say for confirmation speak to the Department of Transport, so i did. They say they have nothing to add and therefore it's as per the DVLA (total runaround) But they did say they get this a lot of this and the DVLA have in the past advised a D1. So i spoke to the DVLA again and they said, 8 passenger seats only on a B with possibly some exceptions WHICH DON'T APPLY TO MY CIRCUMSTANCES at this point in time.

One of the many problems I have is that i need business insurance ( not to transport people) but i use it to commute to many different places (work in construction so offices and sites) and the exemptions which may be applicable may only allow me to insure it for social use only... bummer

A little nugget the Department for Transport did say if you can get the 110 SW classified as PCV Passenger carrying vehicle then the exemptions will apply... but as it stands it shouldn't be classified as a PCV? I don't know if this is true or not, i don't have the V5. This don't get round the business insurance thing though.

After i argued with the DVLA that it don't make any sense cos if a 110 SW isn't a PCV but has more than 8 seats what is classified as? .... and i didn't get answer, just rubbish?

minidod said:

It's a public forum, there for you asked everyone on here for their opinion you retarded little scrote

You came on mumping that you can't get insurace to drive a 12 seater 110 CSW without a minibus licence, then when I point out that you don't need a minbus licence you tell us that it not registered as a minibus. So then you don't need a minibus licence to drive it. Where is the problem, get insurance for the vehicle you want.

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Thanks... when you word something differently it reads so much better. LOL.

I actually had the similar conversation with the DVLA and they couldn't answer it sensibly... even if i can get the exemptions to work, i need business insurance to commute to different work places (i'm self employed as well so my place of work is my house and anything else is commuting offices and sites etc) I may not be able to get business insurance and apply the exemptions as it says for social use but my business is not carrying people so i don't know... to be honest, the DVLA don't know, the Department for Transport don't know so i think i'm just going to do it anyway!

I dont see a reason that you cannot remove the seats and get the vehicle reclassified by DVLA . The same vehicle i.e 110 wagon has been available with different seating arrangements since start eg 12. 11, (with front cubby) 10 seats and latest with 7 seats .

Further to above , my 110 CSW V5 as its an "estate" does not even list number of seats ( I think IIRC the seats number is only recorded on PCV class ) The only people really interested in seat numbers is ins co , and if its minibus (more than 8 seats) a lot of ins co will not cover . I used to use a specialist minbus ins co for my LDV17 seater.

If the seats are not fitted then you cannot be prosecuted for driving other than in accordance with your licence
HTSH

tacr2man said:

I dont see a reason that you cannot remove the seats and get the vehicle reclassified by DVLA . The same vehicle i.e 110 wagon has been available with different seating arrangements since start eg 12. 11, (with front cubby) 10 seats and latest with 7 seats .

Further to above , my 110 CSW V5 as its an "estate" does not even list number of seats ( I think IIRC the seats number is only recorded on PCV class ) The only people really interested in seat numbers is ins co , and if its minibus (more than 8 seats) a lot of ins co will not cover . I used to use a specialist minbus ins co for my LDV17 seater.

If the seats are not fitted then you cannot be prosecuted for driving other than in accordance with your licence
HTSH

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I follow your logic... thanks. Neither the DVLA or DfT want to put there cock on the block and make a decision. I don't know how easy if at all possible to get it reclassified though... I'm happy to remove the seats, wont 5 as a minimum and maybe 8 max for when we all jump in and go to away games on a saturday.

Have you viewed the V5? if it does not have a number of seats listed then it is not a minibus (PCV) its taxation class will be PLG . The number of seats will be what they are physically fitted . I have a 110CSW V8 that was originally 12 seater . It is now 5 seater and is insured as such . When I have sought quotes they come back as 12 seater which is very high premium , but there has been no probs with ins co accepting that it has been modded to 5 seats. I am not being funny but I think you are making your own problems, get a quote from ins co for 110 with 5 seats make sure that they have noted that it is 5 seater on "mods" same as you would for winch or bull bar .
From a driving point of view if it isnt a vehicle with more than 8 seats (By the way it includes the driver , thats why mpv dont go more than that number), then thats what it is the original number of seats is irrelevant. The reason you are not getting a explicit answer from DVLA etc is that they are pretty ignorant of most laws, and they also are a risk averse culture, so would rather not give any answers at all.
Re reclassification , that will only apply if you have it listed as minbus on V5 , if listed as estate or utility which will be in taaxation class plg then there will be no specified seating numbers so no need to reclassify as they have no record of original seat quantity . Hope that makes it all clearer for you

I'll give it a go and see what happens - when i spoke to my insurance company the one who i have my main motor with, they told me the following...

If i was to drive a 7.5T vehicle on my licence, I would not be insured regardless of the physical gross weight at that time. (i.e vehicle empty which may never weigh more than 3.5T gross) They said the same applied to the LR from the point of view that i may rip half the seats out but the vehicle is still registered for up to 12 people. (BUT as you say I don't know what the V5 says... i'm going back tonight to have a look at it)

It is my responsibility to ensure i am legal to drive not the insure companies. They just sell a product. I think they will not be interested until i try to make a claim and then look for the loop hole to stiff me on??

I'll ring a different company and explain the mod and see what they say.

Does all this mean that I should have taken a driving test??

They gave me a chit and it was sent off, then along came my full licence for motorcycles (with or without a sidecar), motor tricycles, tracked vehicles, motorised mowing equipment, vehicles with multiple axles, small passenger vehicles with up to 16 seats, vehicles over 7.5 tons with or without a trailer, etc.

I'm just an old gimmer with plenty of qualifications!!

Why not ring around for insurance? Only a dipstick stays with their car insurance for a Landy!!

OSD

you can still have it insured for business use, as long as your business isn't transporting people and not cause a problem.

a similar issue for towing trailers without a tacho. I have a freelander commercial, which is registered as a goods vehicle. I can tow a trailer for work in connection with my business, for example to transport tools and materials, without a tacho.

What I cannot do is use the trailer if my business is transporting items using the trailer and receiving money for the same, would need a tacho for this.

David Stoner said:

Right... DVLGay say... number of seats category B entitles you to is 8 passenger seats (they may be 9 in total with a driver but i didn't ask)

They did say for confirmation speak to the Department of Transport, so i did. They say they have nothing to add and therefore it's as per the DVLA (total runaround) But they did say they get this a lot of this and the DVLA have in the past advised a D1. So i spoke to the DVLA again and they said, 8 passenger seats only on a B with possibly some exceptions WHICH DON'T APPLY TO MY CIRCUMSTANCES at this point in time.

One of the many problems I have is that i need business insurance ( not to transport people) but i use it to commute to many different places (work in construction so offices and sites) and the exemptions which may be applicable may only allow me to insure it for social use only... bummer

A little nugget the Department for Transport did say if you can get the 110 SW classified as PCV Passenger carrying vehicle then the exemptions will apply... but as it stands it shouldn't be classified as a PCV? I don't know if this is true or not, i don't have the V5. This don't get round the business insurance thing though.

After i argued with the DVLA that it don't make any sense cos if a 110 SW isn't a PCV but has more than 8 seats what is classified as? .... and i didn't get answer, just rubbish?

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You're right, Cat B entitles you to have 8 passengers. You say you didn't ask about the driver... Generally a driver is required in most vehicles, apart from roller coasters I think ... :biggrin1:

The other alternative is to get a utility station wagon which means it only has 5 seats. Simples innit.