Government Committee proposes £1800 car tax for 4x4

Heard today

Discuss!

Regards

Peter

110 CSW

> Discuss!


Afraid I cant as bad language is offensive ( so are politicians )

On 2006-08-09, puffernutter <[email protected]> wrote:

> Heard today
>
> Discuss!

... with your MP, if they don't know you're there they won't count you.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

"puffernutter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Heard today
>
> Discuss!
>
> Regards
>
> Peter
>
> 110 CSW
>

Heard it yesterday, and although it did say "the most polluting vehicles"
yes, it's probably directed quite squarely at 4x4's. It came along with a
new proposal to lower limits on A-roads (and presumably B-roads and
unclassified roads too). So it will become unsupportably expensive to drive
in a country which has no useable and affordable alternative and which has
become one very big traffic-calmed 20 MPH zone. Cupid stunts.

Steve

"puffernutter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Heard today
>
> Discuss!
>
> Regards
>
> Peter
>
> 110 CSW

Hah, the amount of Panda 4x4 and audi quattro and sierra 4x4 etc drivers
will soon put an end to that

Si

Are they talking about new cars or rasiing the taxes on existing ones?
Does anyone know. My mate told me about this today. Might end up
driving the series one to weork everyday. Gits.

Dave

Peter wrote
> Heard today
>
> Discuss!
>
I thought the most polluting vehicles already paid more tax through the fuel
duty and VAT on fuel. All the engines meet Euro4 emissions tests so what is
their problem. Pollution from vehicles is a very small proportion of the
total anyway and it would do much more good to tackle power stations,
factories, central heating, etc first. But then they couldn't raise money
that way could they?
Can't see the point of a specific 4x4 tax as it would catch all sorts of
vehicles used by ordinary voters that pay for their motoring from taxed
income, Panda 4x4's, Defenders, Subarus, etc, whereas it wouldn't catch
extremely polluting vehicles like Buses, Rolls Royce's, Bentleys, Ferraris
etc unless it's one more try at getting us off the road so they and their
rich friends can drive round in their Co. vehicles paid for by us without us
"unwashed" getting in their way.

A "socialist" Mayor, Red Ken, prices ordinary folk out of London yet on
everything we buy we pay for others to travel into London in their Company
Cars and now the "Socialist" Labour Party propose similar everywhere else.
A more fair and "socialist" way would be to simply ban all engines over 2
litres. in new vehicles but that would inconvenience them and their wealthy
friends and not raise revenue.

And then there is the proposal to reduce speed limits to cut pollution,
typical politician/civil service lack of thought, a lower speed limit with
good enforcement means everyone goes for big engined fast accelerating cars
as they did in the States.
Better to restrict the outside lane on Motorways to cars, ie. vehicles under
5ft. high, say. raise the limit in that lane to 80 mph which would get the
country moving again from what I've seen recently, and make people think
before deciding on a large 4x4.

(Rant over!)
--
Regards
Bob
"Never get so busy making a living
that you forget to make a life" Anon.

"puffernutter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Heard today
>
> Discuss!
>
> Regards
>
> Peter
>
> 110 CSW

nope thats just the quote that the media idiots are punting the proposal
is to increase the VED on vehicles which produce the most CO2 so thats the
bigger Mercs BMWs Porches etc too and just another ploy to get sympathy for
Billy Liar when he discounted it and timed just as parliament go off for
the summer holidays along with the "I'm delaying my holidays so I can appear
to be doing something about the Isreael thing" three days ? that seems long
enough byeeee .
Derek

GrnOval wrote:

|| "puffernutter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
|| news:[email protected]...
||| Heard today
|||
||| Discuss!
|||
||| Regards
|||
||| Peter
|||
||| 110 CSW
||
|| Hah, the amount of Panda 4x4 and audi quattro and sierra 4x4 etc
|| drivers will soon put an end to that
||
|| Si

Rest assured they will find a way of separating the "nasty" 4x4s from the
"nice" ones.

--
Rich
==============================

I don't approve of signatures, so I don't have one.

Firstly I doubt whether they could make it retrospective, and secondly I
don't think the manufacturers will wear it.

And thirdly what is a 4x4? my series isn't when on the tarmac


--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes


"puffernutter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Heard today
>
> Discuss!
>
> Regards
>
> Peter
>
> 110 CSW
>

Well if it were a tax on 4X4's they would need some way of identifying them
from the rest of the 2 wheelers out there, now that would presumably be at
new registration along with those pollution categories they have at the
moment. Therefore it is not likely to affect older vehicles unless they
decide to put some stupid amount on engine capacity.

It makes no sence if they want to go the way of toll roads and black boxes
anyway.


--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes






"Dave R" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Are they talking about new cars or rasiing the taxes on existing ones?
> Does anyone know. My mate told me about this today. Might end up
> driving the series one to weork everyday. Gits.
>
> Dave
>

On 2006-08-09, Larry <[email protected]> wrote:

> It makes no sence if they want to go the way of toll roads and black boxes
> anyway.

I suspect it's a scare story designed to soften us up for the
introduction of whatever other schemes they decide to foist upon us
paid for by our own money.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

puffernutter wrote:
> Heard today
>
> Discuss!
>
> Regards
>
> Peter
>
> 110 CSW
>

Well, I know it isn't popular, and Rebecca riots notwithstanding, but I
think Toll motorways might be the solution. Here's the deal:

Cancel VED, which is the the tax that pays for the upkeep of the
motorway and trunk road system (A roads and local roads are already paid
for through Council Tax).

Up the motorway speed limit to 80 mph (or even go with the German
Autobahn, and have no limit except locally), whilst restricting lorries
and coaches to 70

Reduce the national limit (i.e. anywhere without local restrictions) to
55 mph

Charge Motorway users according to vehicle type and the distance between
entrance and exit.

Advantages: faster travel on Motorways (Yay!), fewer slow vehicles on
motorways, lorries pay for the damage they cause (last time I was in the
UK, all the slow lanes had ruts!), fewer "standing costs" of vehicle
ownership, thus each long journey can be costed more fairly against
public transport, beaurocracy for collecting money shifted to actually
using the roads, hence fewer "tax disc dodgers", lower limit on
non-motorways would reduce fuel use and pollution

Disadvantages: Need to remodel every junction on the motorway system s
that entry/exit in both directions is funnelled through toll booths,
higher load on "country" roads (although the lower speed limit would
discourage that), fundamental shift in pricing would cause discontent
(although it would be fairer, giving as I say a clearer comparison of
costs on long journeys between car and train).

For most Series Land Rover owners, the drop in speed limit wouldn't even
be noticed.
Oh, whilst the Gubmint are about it, they could insist that each car
carried an MOT and Insurance notice in it's windscreen, to replace the
Tax disc. I know that many plods seem not to be able to tell a valid
from an out-of-date disc (at least in St. Paul's, Bristol they couldn't)
but it would help cut down the number of offenders there.

Just my couple of centimes.

Stuart

I feel an opening for 4x4 fly drive holidays in Oz is on the cards!!

UKP650 return flight
4 weeks of glorious 4x4 tracks, beaches, deserts, crocs, Rolf Harris
(oops he dont live 'ere anymore) and of course dont forget the weather!!

I'll even offer a buyback on me old Chick Magnet SWB IIA !!

On 10-Aug-2006, Srtgray <[email protected]> wrote:

> Up the motorway speed limit to 80 mph (or even go with the German
> Autobahn, and have no limit except locally), whilst restricting lorries
> and coaches to 70

You obviously haven't seen an Irish truck, they do 60-70 all the time and
get away with it,and tamper with their speed limiter not to mention tacho
abuse....
No-one is trained to stop a 44 ton juggernaught doing 70 mph in an emergency
and ask any UK trucker the SAFE stopping distance and he won't have a clue,
hell half of the UK truckers couldn't even tell you the safe stopping
distance for 30mph as they speed at 56mph through outlying villages

> Reduce the national limit (i.e. anywhere without local restrictions) to 55
> mph

Don't start on reducing the speed limit. Start fining people for driving too
slow and the nutter's who sunday drive in the middle lane at 50 mph for
miles on end ignoring irate drivers who flash them and blow horns at
them....

> Charge Motorway users according to vehicle type and the distance between
> entrance and exit.

M6 toll road - still not working nor in profit yet

>lorries pay for the damage they cause (last time I was in the UK, all the
>slow lanes had ruts!)

Most trucks pay an excise duty of around £1200. I don't think its fair that
they get blamed for all the damage and pollution in the UK!. Most of the
ruts are due to OVERWEIGHT foreigners who abuse our system, don't buy our
fuel nor pay fines when they break our laws. The rest of the ruts are bad
planning as most of the motorway decks were designed to carry 30-35 tons
when they were built many a year ago to carry around 25 tons. Then the dozy
government raised the haulage weight.

>Need to remodel every junction on the motorway system so that entry/exit in
>both directions is funnelled through toll booths

What would happen when they start building the juctions?, increased driving
time, congestion, accidents and the list goes on. most of the UK motorway
networks junctions are inadequate at best, never mind trying to upgrade
them. Long tailbacks whilst fumbling for loose change - I don't think so.

> For most Series Land Rover owners, the drop in speed limit wouldn't even
> be noticed.

Oh so its O.K. for us Sereis landrover owners who doddle along the motorway,
causing congestion, annoyance and other pains to road users who DON'T drive
a landy!. I drive the UK all week and although i don't normally look for any
there are few series lr's on our motorway network so i don't think they will
be bothered at all

> Oh, whilst the Gubmint are about it, they could insist that each car
> carried an MOT and Insurance notice in it's windscreen, to replace the
> Tax disc. I know that many plods seem not to be able to tell a valid
> from an out-of-date disc (at least in St. Paul's, Bristol they couldn't)
> but it would help cut down the number of offenders there.

No it wouldn't, never heard of a Photo quality printer!. A local scally
where i live has been done and banged up for 8 years for forging over
£140,000 worth of MOT's, Insurance docs and VE discs. The arse even kept a
note of the registrations of the docs he had made so guess who will be
getting a visit! one punter will be hit hard as the guy has been making docs
for the last 5 years for him! A quick count say £1500 for insurance £800 for
VED and the vehicle won't be roadworthy! Thats at least £2300 he hasn't paid
leading to paying drivers stumping up more!

Anyway, nothing personal, just my views on an unjust country, one that many
decent people live in and pay through the nose for the leeches to live the
lord of the manor lifestyle

W.

On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 08:39:13 +0100, Srtgray <[email protected]> wrote:

> ...
> Oh, whilst the Gubmint are about it, they could insist that each car
> carried an MOT and Insurance notice in it's windscreen, to replace the
> Tax disc...


The MOT is heading that way already I think - won't be long before the
P.O. lose the road tax business.

As for insurance - well that doesn't really make any sense. The insurance
I have is valid for me, not the vehicle - although the bizarre system we
have in the UK also bundles in some vehicle 'protection'.

In any event - none of these pieces of paper are necessary these days.
Number plate recognition ensures the details are available to any
busy-body with the right connections.

--
William Tasso

Land Rover - 110 V8
Discovery - V8

On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 09:24:38 +0100, <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> On 10-Aug-2006, Srtgray <[email protected]> wrote:

>> ...
>> Charge Motorway users according to vehicle type and the distance between
>> entrance and exit.
>
> M6 toll road - still not working nor in profit yet ...

No idea about profitability, but the road seemed to be working just fine
on the few occasions I used it last year.

--
William Tasso

Land Rover - 110 V8
Discovery - V8

justtherightm+AEA-nforthejob.com wrote:
> On 10-Aug-2006, Srtgray <srtgrayNOT+AEA-clara.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>Up the motorway speed limit to 80 mph (or even go with the German
>>Autobahn, and have no limit except locally), whilst restricting lorries
>>and coaches to 70
>
>
> You obviously haven't seen an Irish truck, they do 60-70 all the time and
> get away with it,and tamper with their speed limiter not to mention tacho
> abuse....
> No-one is trained to stop a 44 ton juggernaught doing 70 mph in an emergency
> and ask any UK trucker the SAFE stopping distance and he won't have a clue,
> hell half of the UK truckers couldn't even tell you the safe stopping
> distance for 30mph as they speed at 56mph through outlying villages
>

Some people will break any law or speed limit if they have the will, but
I'm looking at the majority of law-abiding citizens. See my earlier
post about compulsory retesting of drivers every five years.

>
>>Reduce the national limit (i.e. anywhere without local restrictions) to 55
>>mph
>
>
> Don't start on reducing the speed limit. Start fining people for driving too
> slow and the nutter's who sunday drive in the middle lane at 50 mph for
> miles on end ignoring irate drivers who flash them and blow horns at
> them....
>
>

I was talking about the non-Motorways, indeed in the paragraph above I
suggested RAISING the motorway limit.

>>Charge Motorway users according to vehicle type and the distance between
>>entrance and exit.
>
>
> M6 toll road - still not working nor in profit yet
>

Can't comment, but I suppose it's because the "real" M6 is still paid
for by other means - indeed, why pay twice to use the M6 Toll? Has to
be universal or not at all IMO.

>
>>lorries pay for the damage they cause (last time I was in the UK, all the
>>slow lanes had ruts!)
>
>
> Most trucks pay an excise duty of around +/6M-1200. I don't think its fair that
> they get blamed for all the damage and pollution in the UK!. Most of the
> ruts are due to OVERWEIGHT foreigners who abuse our system, don't buy our
> fuel nor pay fines when they break our laws. The rest of the ruts are bad
> planning as most of the motorway decks were designed to carry 30-35 tons
> when they were built many a year ago to carry around 25 tons. Then the dozy
> government raised the haulage weight.
>
>

Absolutely! Why let foreigners get away with ruining Britain's roads
without paying? Toll motorways would make it fairer, surely?

>>Need to remodel every junction on the motorway system so that entry/exit in
>>both directions is funnelled through toll booths
>
>
> What would happen when they start building the juctions?, increased driving
> time, congestion, accidents and the list goes on. most of the UK motorway
> networks junctions are inadequate at best, never mind trying to upgrade
> them. Long tailbacks whilst fumbling for loose change - I don't think so.
>
>

Roadworks always cause problems.

>>For most Series Land Rover owners, the drop in speed limit wouldn't even
>>be noticed.
>
>
> Oh so its O.K. for us Sereis landrover owners who doddle along the motorway,
> causing congestion, annoyance and other pains to road users who DON'T drive
> a landy!. I drive the UK all week and although i don't normally look for any
> there are few series lr's on our motorway network so i don't think they will
> be bothered at all
>
No, I was suggesting that the non-motorway reduction in speed wouldn't
affect many people (I used Series LR to keep it more On-topic! ).
Tolls would encourage slower vehicles to keep off the motorways.

>
>>Oh, whilst the Gubmint are about it, they could insist that each car
>>carried an MOT and Insurance notice in it's windscreen, to replace the
>>Tax disc. I know that many plods seem not to be able to tell a valid
>>from an out-of-date disc (at least in St. Paul's, Bristol they couldn't)
>>but it would help cut down the number of offenders there.
>
>
> No it wouldn't, never heard of a Photo quality printer!. A local scally
> where i live has been done and banged up for 8 years for forging over
> +/6M-140,000 worth of MOT's, Insurance docs and VE discs. The arse even kept a
> note of the registrations of the docs he had made so guess who will be
> getting a visit! one punter will be hit hard as the guy has been making docs
> for the last 5 years for him! A quick count say +/6M-1500 for insurance +/6M-800 for
> VED and the vehicle won't be roadworthy! Thats at least +/6M-2300 he hasn't paid
> leading to paying drivers stumping up more!

Anything that can be printed, can be forged. But the plods round here
have regular roadside stops to check the docs (and guess which vehicle
stands out most, and so gets pulled over frequently? Five points for
correctly naming the LHD 110 on British plates)

>
> Anyway, nothing personal, just my views on an unjust country, one that many
> decent people live in and pay through the nose for the leeches to live the
> lord of the manor lifestyle
>
> W.

Hence the word "Discuss"! I'm just looking at it having moved to a
country where most of the above applies, and it works pretty well. My
overall motoring costs have certainly decreased from the UK, and I now
choose to use trains more easily, since I haven't stumped up 180 quid to
have the vehicle sitting out on the drive.

"puffernutter" wrote > Discuss!

The All-Party Committee's suggestion of an eye-watering hike in excise duty
for cars and higher taxes on air travel would be far more credible if the
billions to be raised had been pledged to fund national energy-efficiency
measures, effective research into alternative energy sources and a proper
national programme of sustainable energy generation. Instead, all we get is
another tax, which will hit the poorest hardest, with our MP's yet again
completely missing the point.
We desperately need to become far more self-sufficient, to head-off the
looming crisis in global energy supplies. All we get from our senior
politicians is another stealth tax, cynically proposed under the guise of
green measures to save the planet. When are they going to wake-up and show
some initiative? If this carries on, the country will be bled dry by the
energy producers and reduced to the role of a vassal state, within the next
15 years.

- Tom.

Tom Bennett wrote:

|| the country will be bled dry by the energy producers and reduced to the
|| role of a vassal state, within the next 15 years.
||
|| - Tom.

Given recent events, isn't that what we are already?

--
Rich
==============================

I don't approve of signatures, so I don't have one.