Freelander 1 Full lock lurches

I would imagine your IRD is about '75%' shagged. Means its in a decent enough condition to drive the front wheels without any problem (although for how long is a question!) and will turn the rear pinion without a prop attached without jamming the crown & pinion gears (ie the gear that drive the rear pinion).

As it will turn the pinion without jamming - your friendly seller couldn't be arsed to swap out the pinion for a plate, and of course could tell you it was an economy decision to remove props

However the bearings in the IRD will be so worm, and teeth on the crown and pinion gears possibly broken, so when you attach the props and start putting forces through it (the front & rear wheels turn at different speeds when turning) - it won't take it. It will have been made like this by a a faulty (overly stiff) VCU, mismatched tyres or unevenly inflated tyres.

You're almost definitely looking at a recon VCU and a recon IRD - kerrrr-ching. You might be lucky and be able to get something from a breakers that is servicable. You might also be unlucky and need a rear diff.

When my IRD went I, I recon it was about '85%' shagged. I took the props off, took it for a test drive and this is what it sounded like....



Mine made that knocking sound. I could have replaced the pinion for a blanking plate, but I didn't trust the remaining front axle drive, so had all the bearings in the IRD replaced (and shims & seals). I also removed the pinion gear to make it 2WD as I didn't want the expense of crown and pinion gears and a VCU shipped from the UK (I still run the pinion, props and siezed VCU). You're luckier - you have cheap parts local.

GrumpyGel said:

I would imagine your IRD is about '75%' shagged. Means its in a decent enough condition to drive the front wheels without any problem (although for how long is a question!) and will turn the rear pinion without a prop attached without jamming the crown & pinion gears (ie the gear that drive the rear pinion).

As it will turn the pinion without jamming - your friendly seller couldn't be arsed to swap out the pinion for a plate, and of course could tell you it was an economy decision to remove props

However the bearings in the IRD will be so worm, and teeth on the crown and pinion gears possibly broken, so when you attach the props and start putting forces through it (the front & rear wheels turn at different speeds when turning) - it won't take it. It will have been made like this by a a faulty (overly stiff) VCU, mismatched tyres or unevenly inflated tyres.

You're almost definitely looking at a recon VCU and a recon IRD - kerrrr-ching. You might be lucky and be able to get something from a breakers that is servicable. You might also be unlucky and need a rear diff.

When my IRD went I, I recon it was about '85%' shagged. I took the props off, took it for a test drive and this is what it sounded like....



Mine made that knocking sound. I could have replaced the pinion for a blanking plate, but I didn't trust the remaining front axle drive, so had all the bearings in the IRD replaced (and shims & seals). I also removed the pinion gear to make it 2WD as I didn't want the expense of crown and pinion gears and a VCU shipped from the UK (I still run the pinion, props and siezed VCU). You're luckier - you have cheap parts local.

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I've just watched your video on Youtube!

Mine only makes a clunking noise on full lock and not when driving but clearly there's something proper wrong.
It's a 99 model with 80k on the clock, new MOT and paid £400 for it.
First job I guess is to check the VCU?
Is it possible that one has gone without the other or is it usual for the VCU and IRD to be both knackered?

VCU tightens up then stuffs the IRD, rear diff or both.
It is possible that the prop was removed before taking out the IRD. Or it may have taken out the rear diff.

Giantdog said:

I've just watched your video on Youtube!

Mine only makes a clunking noise on full lock and not when driving but clearly there's something proper wrong.
It's a 99 model with 80k on the clock, new MOT and paid £400 for it.
First job I guess is to check the VCU?
Is it possible that one has gone without the other or is it usual for the VCU and IRD to be both knackered?

Click to expand...

It is always difficult to tell exactly what's up, but if you are getting lurching and banging I'm pretty sure that can only be coming from the IRD - ie something (almost certainly the rear pinion) is slipping. So it ain't well.

You might find that if you put a good VCU on it, the IRD is good enough to 'hold' turning corners and the tension will be released through the VCU. However, even if it did manage that, if you're out on a icy road and lose grip on the front, I doubt it'll be able to hold to drive the car via the back wheels.

I would hazard a guess as well that even without props on, at some point the rear pinion, or even the shafts inside the IRD could jam. This will likely crack the IRDs case and you will be stuffed.

Its not good news. If that were my motor, I'd be putting a blanking pate on it and running 2WD in the hope that the other gears are sound enough (it doesn't sound as bad as my one was). Or if want 4WD get a recon VCU (you might try the OWUT on your current 1 first - but I'd be amazed if its not very sad) and depending on how deep your pockets are a recon IRD, recon your IRD or an IRD from a breakers (gamble). If you take the pinion off the IRD and check the gears on the crown & pinion gears and they are OK - reconditioning your IRD is probably going to be cheaper than getting a recon unit - but the car will be out of action for longer.

If you do want to recon or replace the IRD it is obviously a pretty big job.

However, I had never done anything so major before and managed to do it myself OK - was quite chuffed with myself afterwards actually

All I had was standard type gear - socket set, screwdriver and a hammer! Also used a pole over the ratchet handle to get leverage on the tight bolts. I was lucky enough to have an inspection pit - getting enough room under the car to work in is the big helper.

I may be being a bit pessimistic here - but that's my opinion from what I've read of the problem. Others might have other ideas.

Giantdog said:

I've just watched your video on Youtube!

Mine only makes a clunking noise on full lock and not when driving but clearly there's something proper wrong.
It's a 99 model with 80k on the clock, new MOT and paid £400 for it.
First job I guess is to check the VCU?
Is it possible that one has gone without the other or is it usual for the VCU and IRD to be both knackered?

Click to expand...

BTW mine's a '99 and had about that mileage on it 3 years ago when it went bang. I paid £4,000 for it though! The quotes I had to repair it over here - parts only, no labour, was more than I paid for the car!

davidsmith1307 said:

VCU tightens up then stuffs the IRD, rear diff or both.
It is possible that the prop was removed before taking out the IRD. Or it may have taken out the rear diff.

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+1

looks like it may be a sell for spares or repairs at this rate.

I had a transfer box go on a Grand Cherokee I had once. I had a recon put on for £400 fitted and it is still going strong but in the Landy it sounds like a much dearer job

Changing the transfer box in a Jeeeee, what ever, is a pretty big job. Changing the IRD & VCU in a Freelander is no bigger. The bits will be lighter as well making it easier.

The IRD going was obviously a bitch of a problem - but I fixed it, learnt from it and in the 6 years I've had the car other than that its been almost boringly reliable. It's cost bugger all to keep on the road, its comfortable and does its job very well. I could have torched it when the IRD went - but I'm a great fan now

just took it out for a spin.

• It drives ok.
• pulling out of junctions no noise or juddering but (this may be just in my head) feels as if the breaks on on.
• Full lock in reverse no noise but doesn't want to roll.
• Full lock forward the car isn't happy, knocking and lurching.
• I'll hopefully get the prop off in the morning before work.

I'd take it to Bell but they're 62 miles away and I really don't want to drive it like it is.
At a bit of a loss as to what to do at this point as I really can't afford to have it off the road as I need it for work.
A garage is going to charge far more than the car is worth.

I could just drive it until it dies but that seems a shame.

Do the OWUT then remove the props so you don't do any damage. Then consider what your next step is. Maybe you can get away with a VCU.

The Mad Hat Man said:

maybe he has suffered with plagiarism? @Hippo

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I have disabled the "embedded video" option. To view them you have to click play, the error message will display, then click the bottom right you tube icon and a new window will open on you tube's official web site. the video will then play.

Why have I done this? I don't mind peeps linking to my video's on sites which are legal and honourable. After all I created them to help people. Problem is a growing number of sites are using them to attract people from search engines to view them on their web site, along with their own advertising alongside. A lot of which is centred around religious hate, sick se xu al acts and/or violence. It wasn't something I wanted to watch or my video's to be alongside. You tube can't help so the only way is to delete my video's or disable the embedding. My channel isn't the only one to have this happen. It looks like the majority of channels have this happen. These dodgy web sites seem to automatically collect data from you tube so they can link to the video with it's description below. If I change the description the dodgy site see's the change straight away. These sites are promoting their nasty ways using peeps video's to attract viewers to collect advertising money.

The action I took had nothing to do with ratings. I don't get paid for any products which may be shown in my video's. They're there to help people. Same with my photo's. The only thing I ask with the photo's is peeps use the eggsisting link to display the photo, rather than attaching them to a fred, so I can easily replace the existing photo with a betterer one from a betterer camera, by replacing the photo so it uses the same link. Hence all linked pic's will therefore be updated.

Hippo said:

A lot of which is centred around religious hate, sick se xu al acts and/or violence.

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Yeh, but other than that, is there anything wrong with them?

When it was pointed out, I was contemplating nominating you for Cock of the Year - but thought there'd be a reasonable reason - and you do link into LZ in the YouTube notes Would have been pointless though, the committee's rigged don't you know

There were also a couple of other posts today making their authors very worthy of nomination. One was a Merkin, so I think that means he's nominated by default.

I really appreciate everyone taking the time to share their knowledge, a forum is only as good as it's members and you have really given me a lot of help.
I'm going to do the test tomorrow although there's a monsoon blowing outside at the moment (05:57 in the UK) then Take the whole prop off again.

I haven't a garage so it looks like a damp start to my day.

Gutted

Well, after an enchanting couple of hours underneath the Freelander I've wrestled the prop shaft off.
I didn't do the OWUT as it was absolutely p#*%ing it down, I'm wet through, freezing cold and proper p'd off.

I'm going to test the VCU in a vice and will post the results later.
I'm going to have to run it as is (2WD), certainly for this week while I assess my options.
Currently I'm thinking run it like this until it dies then throw it away.

The knocking on front lock seemed to come from the rear?
With the prop off it drives fine, no knocking at all even on full lock forward or reverse.

So, the knackered bit could be, the IRD or the VCU or the rear diff, a combination or all three.

How do I work out which bit it is?

• Recon IRD = £615...Car isn't worth it.
• VCU = £200... Possible assuming that's all that's gone.
• Rear diff = £350... Pushing it but maybe assuming that's all that's gone
• Just buy 2nd hand bits from a breakers...Parts could be as knackered as the bits I'd take off.

Knocking from the rear when the prop is attached could be a diff mount.
Normally the front mount.

brownie55 said:

Knocking from the rear when the prop is attached could be a diff mount.
Normally the front mount.

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The problem I'm having is how to isolate which bit is the problem.

The wheel up test would identify whether the VCU was crocked BUT wouldn't tell you if IRD or diff were toast.
Drop the oil in the diff and IRD and look for chunks or metallic silvery shine.

Giantdog said:

Sorry if this has been asked before but,

I've not had the Landy long and really love it.
The guy I bought it off has been running it without the rear drive shaft to 'improve the MPG'.
So, with winter coming and I want my 4x4 to be 4x4 I've put the shaft back on today.

But

When I put the steering on full lock and slowly drive around the pub car park the car seems to lurch a bit and there is a knocking noise.

What's up with it?

Thank you for any advice you can give

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You have been conned the VCU is knackered.

It's cer

wammers said:

You have been conned the VCU is knackered.

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It's certainly looking that way wammers.
It drives fine on 2WD but for how long is the question.
I only paid £400 for it with a pretty new set of tires, new cat and 11 months MOT so I'll not lose much selling it for spares if worse comes to the worse.

It's just that I quite like it.

If it's only the VCU I can live with that it's whether it's taken the other bits with it.
I'll check the VCU tomorrow, too cold and wet today.

Giantdog said:

It's cer

It's certainly looking that way wammers.
It drives fine on 2WD but for how long is the question.
I only paid £400 for it with a pretty new set of tires, new cat and 11 months MOT so I'll not lose much selling it for spares if worse comes to the worse.

It's just that I quite like it.

If it's only the VCU I can live with that it's whether it's taken the other bits with it.
I'll check the VCU tomorrow, too cold and wet today.

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A £400.00 car is not worth a new VCU in my view, run it in two wheel drive until it falls apart and scrap it or sell it for spares.