Front axle play?

frontdiff - YouTube
frontflange - YouTube
reardiff - YouTube

Here goes... Hopefully the links above will work. The first one is the play in the front axel, the second one is front drive flages and the last one is the play in the rear axel.

In my endevour to cure the clunk when changing gear, i have changed the rear half shafts and drive flanges. I have also changed the "A" frame ball joint. I got underneath and took the PTO cover off to see the play on the gear between the gear and transfere box.

I then got a mechanic who is a land rover enthusiast as well to have a look at the wear on output/input shaft. He said there is a bit there but what is more worrying is the amount of slack in the front axel. He said "cure that and alot of the clunk will go away". He said that there is the tiniest play in the crown to pinion mesh but the rest of it is somewhere between the diff and the wheels. Said its more important to get the front axle sorted and the rest will last longer.

input/output was checked by hand brake off and rocking the handbrake drum.

As you can hopefully see from the video's when you grab hold of the front prop shaft it will turn almost quarter of a turn. I have also video'd the front flanges whilst someone twisted the front prop back and forward (you can hear the clunk on the video) but there is not too much movement. I have also video'd the rear set up which has less than half the play of the front set up.

One of the front prop UJ's has the tiniest play, nothing really.

What i am asking is, could this much play be created by worn CV's or half shaft spline wear at the diff end? or could it be something else.

The setup is Landrover 90 (1986) Discovery 200tdi engine, gearbox, transfer box. I know this was a donor setup and dont know the total mileage.

After doing the rear halfshafts and "A" frame, it got rid of alot of the metallic clunk and is not anywhere near as harsh on the gear changes, but its still there some of the time.

Before this latest news i was expecting to just find wear between the gearbox and trasfer box, change them and job done, not so sure now.:doh:

any views appreciated

I would change the flanges as they don't cost too much.

I changed my front diff as there was as much play as you've got but it only reduced it by about half so prob wear in drive shafts, not a big job to pull them and have a look.

landowner said:

I would change the flanges as they don't cost too much.

I changed my front diff as there was as much play as you've got but it only reduced it by about half so prob wear in drive shafts, not a big job to pull them and have a look.

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Hi Landowner
Thanks for the reply. Thats alot of rotation, do you think that most of it could be down to that? Its wierd cause i thought it was coming from the rear, thats why i concentrated my efforts there, but i guess its transmitted down the drive train from the front. I know there was wear in the rear as well probably cause of the age of everything.

Cheers

Cheers
Gary

There will be a bit of play in everything which adds up to a lot, don't think you will ever get it perfect but depends on how much you want to spend.

I would do the drive flanges because there should be no play at all in them.

It is possible to adjust the play in the input gear to the crown wheel !! Look in your Haynes !!!!

ferretboy said:

It is possible to adjust the play in the input gear to the crown wheel !! Look in your Haynes !!!!

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Like i said there seems to be just a tiny bit of play on the input gear to crown wheel and i agree with what Landowner says "a little play in everything adds up to alot" Shafts flanges and CV joints are easy cheap (relatively) fixes so that would be the logical way to go. At the first oppertunity i will rip them out and it may be RIP for them and also look at the diff afterwards.

I don't mind driving it and everyone tells me they all do it. I also understand that i will not get it perfect, but the current state makes me cringe sometimes when i pull away and it all suddenly catches up with a THUMP.

Cheers

will be following this with interest, as i have a similar issue... hoping its not input/ output shafts!!

Tomorrow is the day for taking out the shafts to have a look at them and see if there is any wear.

same issue here just found a lot of play in one of the front uj,s

AAAAArgh What a nightmare. Was taking the front hub off only to find the brake caliper has those stupid splined bolts on it. Didnt have any sockets to fit so off to machine mart in plymouth 36 mile round trip and £30 lighter. Got back again and got the passenger side hub off and shaft out. Outer flange is ok (little bit of wear) CV has a tiny bit of wear, but where the half shaft goes into the diff, the splines have quite a bit of wear.

If the half shaft is worn does this mean that the flange in the diff is worn as well where the half shaft goes in. Or are they alot stronger?

Put it all back together after greasing the CV.

On to the drivers side. Went to take the caliper of, only to find that the stupid spline nuts are solid, even after putting loads of releasing agent on. Anyway, managed to round them off :doh: So back to machine mart (36 mile round trip) £22 lighter after buying some IRWIN sockets. Now this is the really annoying part. Bought the base set cause it had the 13mm one in, thinking this was the one i needed cause it takes a 13mm socket when the bolt is good, only to find that it wont go over the top of the bolt and the next one up is too big.

Any idea how to get these bolts out? do you think one of the other IRWIN sets or will i have to try and weld a bolt to them or will i have to take the whole hub/swivel assembly off the end of the axel in which case can you get a spabber that fits those splined bolts cause you wont be able to fit a socket against the swivel.

Cheers

they are not splined bolts they std bihex bolts 13mm socket will often be too big an 1/2 inch bihex socket will do it better irwin extractor sets dont work very well on bihex heads ,giving the bolt head a good whack will eventually get them out but ensure you keep hammering on socket before head gets to mushroomed

Tnx for the reply.Yes i see what you mean about them being Bihex, never heard that term before. I bought these sockets from machine mart that do bihex but like i say they rounded off so i am stuck with totally round bolts. My fault. is my only option to weld another bolt to them?
Cheers

bihex is only a standard socket like the ring end of a spanner,only use irwin type extractors on hex bolts ,you could try that, but id try mushrooming the head first then hammering socket on ,hitting a bolt loosens it

thanks i will give it a go.
cheers

Got some new bolts for the calliper through today, so on saturday going to get the siezed ones out and then see what wear is in the drivers side front. Made a few enquiries to get hold of a decent second hand front diff so i can change it and then replace what other parts are worn with new. Wanted to replace the diff so i can have a go at adjusting the one that comes out.

I don't know if this is any help but there is some interesting reading from Trewery reference play in the Diffs.
On this link.

http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f7/propshaft-backlash-84316-4.html

Well, have spent the whole of the weekend messing around trying to get the calliper off the offside hub. Ended up splitting the axel at the flange behind the ball swivel. Tried everything to get the calliper bolts out. Irwin sockets, welding bolt to old bolts, drilling out. Well drilling the bolts out got the calliper off, but getting the remainder of the bolt out of the swivel housing was also impossible so had to drill through the swivel housing. Anyway to cut a long story short i have had to put it all back together and blank off the brake line leaving the calliper off.

After inspecting all of the components in both sides of the diff it turns out that both half shafts are worn at the diff end. The off side stub axel and both drive flanges are worn.

Once i get around to repairing all of this i am hoping alot of the clunk will go.

On the brighter side, i have just found a guy 5 miles from me who is selling a disco 1 cut down rolling chassis. so i am buying it off him just for the innards of the axles and hub assemblies. I will then move the chassis on.

-Defender110- said:

will be following this with interest, as i have a similar issue... hoping its not input/ output shafts!!

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At last i have got around to sorting out this problem with the front axel, Its taken me ages to tackle it cause other things have taken priority like changing my transfere box back to original defender ratio to make it better for towing.

Anyway, i had a spare diff and shafts from a disco one 24 spline. Seeing as my ninety has a disco rear axel on (strangely enough though its got a 10 spline rear diff and shafts) so i have swapped the spare 24 spline diff and shafts into the rear, so freeing up the outgoing diff for the front. I got the front diff out and as you can see from the attached picture the splines where the shafts go into the diff are shot away, about two thirds of each spline has gone. I have got the rear diff into the front but hopefully i will be able to get new shafts and CV's from the local supplier to go in (only showing 1 in stock) otherwise i will stick the old ones in (the wear on the shafts is not too bad and i have new drive flanges, it certainly does not match the wear in the diff!!!!!!). The swivel pins are ok, but i am going to replace the wheel bearings and set the swivel pin pre-load again cause i have severe steering shake when going over 50 mph.

Good man, i have to do a rear axle swap on mine (currently drums so will be changing to a disc axle) and also found a t/box mounting that is fubar. so need to do that too hopefully it will fix it!

-Defender110- said:

Good man, i have to do a rear axle swap on mine (currently drums so will be changing to a disc axle) and also found a t/box mounting that is fubar. so need to do that too hopefully it will fix it!

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Tnx. There is always something to work on!!!!!!!!!! Whilst underneath i noticed a rust hole in the middle cross member, so after this job i will have to investigate further