Freelander 1 Freelander TD4 2002 loping at idle -- resolved

Hi all,

Couldn't find a current thread on the subject so here goes. I've a 2002 Freelander (215k km) that is used mostly for a 15 km commute, some stop-and-go, not too much, and never above 90 kph. So a lot of running around at 2200 +/- rpm. Today I took it out on the autoroute and drove it at 130 kph for about 30 minutes -- first time at this speed since several months if not longer --, ran an errand, and drove home again. I have a safety inspection coming up in April and I had welcomed the chance to run the engine at a higher rpm to clear it out a little.

Now at home, it wants to lope a little at idle and I can feel the car shake, or roll a little, with the idle. Seems the motor noise is a little louder too, more knocking. After a few hours I went out and started it again, same deal. Is there anything I can look at or will this settle down on its own?

Just had the oil and oil and air filters changed a week ago.

Thank you in advance for any insight or advice.

Unplug the injectors one at a time and see which one has no effect on the idle.

Guineafowl, thanks for the tip, will do and let you know. Yesterday I pulled the ECU and its box in prep for changing the fuel filter today. Once I get that done I'll move to the injectors. Neglected to mention yesterday that I had a quarter tank of fuel, maybe I pulled some gunk from the tank and have a dirty injector.

Have a good Easter weekend.

Coucherias said:

Guineafowl, thanks for the tip, will do and let you know. Yesterday I pulled the ECU and its box in prep for changing the fuel filter today. Once I get that done I'll move to the injectors. Neglected to mention yesterday that I had a quarter tank of fuel, maybe I pulled some gunk from the tank and have a dirty injector.

Have a good Easter weekend.

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"Lopy" now that's a term I've not heard for many years.
You won't get dirt from the tank into an injector unless the fuel filter have broken down internally. It is possible that some foreign body as got into the fuel system during previous work, which has made its way to an injector after the fast run. I'd try an injector cleaner in the tank and see if it improves.
Alternatively you can pull the injector plugs in turn to see if you can trace a failing injector.

Hi Nodge, well loping was a word my dad liked to use back in the day and it always seemed the perfect description to me.

Ironically the errand I was running yesterday was to the Landrover dealership to get a new fuel filter. Wouldn't it be funny ha ha if the old one failed on the trip.

Honestly though I doubt that's that case. Will try to isolate the injector as per you and Guinea just for fun and will run a cleaner though the tank in any case. The injectors aren't all that old, they were replaced a few years ago by the dealership (they were rebuilt Bosch). With a little luck this will just clear up on its own.

Guinea, Nodge, just finished pulling the wires off the injectors one by one and for what it's worth its the first one on the right (n° 4?, not sure what the order is). It made a little difference, the others made a whole lot. That said, it seems to be a little smoother already so maybe -- maybe -- this is going to be a false alarm. Or maybe an early warning to get the injectors checked.

However I never was able to get the fuel filter out. No vertical room to work with even with the ECU box taken out, as there remains a flat metal bracket passing under the ECU box and just above the fuel filter that seems unremovable. I considered disconnecting the pump from underneath since after disconnecting the filter this would be the only thing keeping the assembly attached to the vehicle but the incoming hose has a crimped metal band for a collar and absolutely no room down there to work in. I'm going to stew with this for a while but may end up going back to the dealer and get them to replace it for me. If anyone had any clues about how to better access the filter (LHD by the way) I'd be grateful although I suppose I'd be better off starting a new thread.

The LHD setup and the fact that it’s an earlier model than mine mean I can’t give you specific help with the filter (Nodge might), but being a service item, the filter shouldn’t be hard to get off.

As for the injector, try fuel cleaner first as suggested.

Pictures?

Guinea, I had the whole thing apart an hour ago but I've already reassembled. That said, pictures are an excellent idea and I'll go ahead and re-disassemble, at least enough to show what I'm up against. I'll post ASAP.

Thanks for the excellent suggestion Guinea. Here are some photos to put this in situ. The red cap is placed on the offending bracket. I've already started another thread and I'll post these photos there too.

Unless that bracket comes off, I would gently bend the bastid out of the way. Hopefully others will have less violent solutions.

Oh I'm not above bending things out of the way. I even considered sawing it off! but it's pretty sturdily attached at the flat spot just above the filter, maybe even spot welded, so there's no moving it I'm afraid.

The bracket is bolted to the inner wing, so can be removed. If you get the fuse box out the way, you'll see the nuts that attach the bracket to the strut top studs.

when a freelander td4 starts loping on tick over it tends to be the high pressure sensor on the end of the fuel rail and make sure you get the right one by taking the number off it.

Nodge, following your excellent suggestion about moving the fusebox I had another go and sure enough with the fusebox moved up and back I had access to the three 15 mm nuts holding the ECU bracket in. Thanks very much for the tip. Once that bracket was gone I had clear vertical access to the filter and after disconnecting the fuel lines it came out on the first good tug. Following reassembly the engine started right up, no extra turns at all. I had left the key on for several seconds before engaging the starter, maybe that helped prime the filter.

teddywood, thanks for this. I'll have to read up on this first as I've no idea really how to test it yet but it sounds worth doing.

In the meantime, as stated above today I did manage to get the fuel filter replaced. Saturday I had added some Bardahl injector cleaner to the tank. Now today on the short test drive I did after replacing the filter I had good uphill power and no loping on idle when I stopped twice along the way to check. Nor did it lope when I let it idle in the driveway when I got home. It's too soon to consider this resolved I think but I'm encouraged. Or could these be symptoms of a faulty or soon-to-fail HP sensor?

Glad the extra access worked.

The rail sensor can cause running issues. Check to see if the rail sensor has a new harness fitted. If not it's well worth fitting the overly harness replacement, even as a preventative measure.

Nodge, as far as I know neither the sensor nor the harness have ever been replaced. For the first 100k km I followed dealership's recommendations and they did the work but as time went on my visits would be on a need-be basis and I would do more of the work myself. I don't recall any discussion about the harness or sensors. Nonetheless it does sound well worth replacing as a precaution. As I mentioned to teddywood I'm not up on this aspect of the motor and will need to look into it. I appreciate the heads up.

I do not know about testing the sensor but it happened to me but the man in the LR garage said they had one in like it and that was the problem and he recommended to change the sensor well I sent off for one and one came and we put it in but it made it worse but it was the wrong one it was about 1/4 inch shorter got another proper one and all is ok that's why I said get the number of your old one .

teddywood, right, very good point about noting the number off the old part. Just now I disconnected it while the engine was running and it made no difference, which I take as a good sign. It seems to be running like its old self again, just hope it passes my what you good folks here call MOT in a couple of weeks.

ETA: Even though it seems to running OK now, I'd like to keep the thread open a little bit longer before considering this problem resolved.

Well, passed MOT with flying colors today (got the date moved up as I was getting impatient) but the blasted thing started the rough idle business again on the way over to the garage. Couldn't tell for sure but it even looked like it was idling roughly during the test but it still passed. I thought that had gone away for good but looks like not. I was going to pull the HP sensor off at home to see if it made a difference but by then it was running better of course.

Just a quick update, the engine goes back and forth between running a bit rough and running smoothly. My driving behavior doesn't seem to have any bearing on how it runs. Unplugging the HP sensor doesn't seem to make a difference.