Freelander Newbie advice

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sivy28 said:
wow gotto get some of those ramps where can you buy these
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Make them out of wood. You'll need lots of 4x2 inch. Chop up 6 lengths of 24 inch then 6 lengths of 12 inch. Nail together like this:

_
_
_
||||||
_
_
_

and that's yer first block. Now make another 3 blocks.

Ramps are made out of wood too. 2x 24inch long lengths side by side with a diagonal cut at one end and a support bar in the middle to support them and keep them together.
 
Hippo said:
The front "axle" is driven at a different speed to the rear "axle" which is why we put the larger tyres on the rear, to try to cancel out the difference, in straight line driving.
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How can that be? If that was the case then they would leave the factory with different size wheels at each end otherwise you would be slipping the VCU in normal driving from day 1?

Surely the gearing for both axles must be the exactly the same?
 
When normal driving the front wheels are driven more than the back by a percentage - in effect they are pulling the back ones along.

When the fronts spin in mud etc the vcu kicks in and drives the back wheels

If the back wheels had a smaller diameter to the front then in normal driving the back wheels would be spinning faster than the fronts to cause the vcu to kick in when it shouldnt then pop goes the weasle...as I understand it.
 
Surely the gearing for both axles must be the exactly the same?
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er .. no ..
they ( hippo 1's ) were designed so that the fronts drag the rears somewhat ..
something to do with road handling ..

~~~~~~
 
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Tannaton said:
How can that be? If that was the case then they would leave the factory with different size wheels at each end otherwise you would be slipping the VCU in normal driving from day 1?

Surely the gearing for both axles must be the exactly the same?
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It's a Freelander 1 so logic may not apply. ;)

The difference in drive ratio makes it feel more like a front wheel drive car as opposed to a 4x4. It provides betterer road manners and a more comfortable ride/drive. It's because the Freelander 1 was aimed at mondeo man or similar. Tempting them into the world of land rover. but wanting betterer comfort and a more pleasurable driving experience.
 
Answering the cheapo tyre question, I bought pair of Roadstones at £80 each fitted, more than happy. Original Mich synchrones still had plenty of tread but side walls were badly cracked.
 
Hippo said:
The difference in drive ratio makes it feel more like a front wheel drive car as opposed to a 4x4. It provides betterer road manners and a more comfortable ride/drive. It's because the Freelander 1 was aimed at mondeo man or similar. Tempting them into the world of land rover. but wanting betterer comfort and a more pleasurable driving experience.
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OK Hippo, the LR Marketting team spent more than the GDP of New Zealand to dream that one up, but it sounds like complete tosh to me - all it would do is cause the rear wheels to try and pull the car back which does not happen in a front wheel drive car.

Hippo said:
It's a Freelander 1 so logic may not apply. ;)
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Which brings us to....

Tannaton said:
rotate one side only (i.e. have a 2mm and a 5mm on each axle) and this will mitigate the slip on the VCU.
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It is true! The diffs will drive the wheels of least resistance, so the more worn tyres will be driven on both axles, props turn at same speed and the VCU can take a nap.

It would presumably wear out 1 wheel in each diff at twice the normal rate, but be less likely to cause repair bills than the VCU taking a lot of Uppers.

I would suggest you ensure the equal sized tyres are not both on the same side of the vehicle, as it may have a tendancy to just go round in circles, and I would also add a previso to detune the traction control to allow for a greater difference in wheel speeds before it applies the brakes.
 
Well I for one would like to thank Hippo, MHM, Freelaner, Austin and lots of others on here for their well documented advice about vcu's, tyres and the problems with miss matched ones and the resulting drivetrain failure that can happen ...if people come on here and feel the need to go against this advice then go ahead - there is nothing to stop you, its your Freelander and your cash at the end of the day ... but to advise a new member to do otherwise is to me irresponsible ...end of story.
 
Brack said:
Well I for one would like to thank Hippo, MHM, Freelaner, Austin and lots of others on here for their well documented advice about vcu's, tyres and the problems with miss matched ones and the resulting drivetrain failure that can happen ...if people come on here and feel the need to go against this advice then go ahead - there is nothing to stop you, its your Freelander and your cash at the end of the day ... but to advise a new member to do otherwise is to me irresponsible ...end of story.
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Again to be clear - we were not advising that it was a good strategy, what I was saying to the new member is that with the tyres he had available, the lowest risk configuration would be not to have the pairs with the same amount of wear on the same axle - and I am now certain that this was the correct advice.

I am new to the forum and I have already had a tremendous amount of value from the experience on it but with a complex car like the Freelander, sometimes in certain circumstances there is an off the wall answer and you need to keep looking at things with an open mind and assume nothing.

The difference in tyre size that he has is within LR's own prescribed tolerances anyway, probably most FL1's on the road are like this, but given the susceptibility of the drive train a swap around will significantly reduce the risk - the diffs will be taking up the slack and not the VCU.

With regard to the suggestion that the axles are driven at different speeds (i.e. front faster) this is simply not the case - the gearing is identical, I think they meant to infer that under normal driving the power fed through the front wheels and it is only channelled to the rear when the VCU is slipped and tightens up.

Richard
 
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Tannaton said:
Again to be clear - we were not advising that it was a good strategy, what I was saying to the new member is that with the tyres he had available, the lowest risk configuration would be not to have the pairs with the same amount of wear on the same axle - and I am now certain that this was the correct advice.

I am new to the forum and I have already had a tremendous amount of value from the experience on it but with a complex car like the Freelander, sometimes in certain circumstances there is an off the wall answer and you need to keep looking at things with an open mind and assume nothing.

The difference in tyre size that he has is within LR's own prescribed tolerances anyway, probably most FL1's on the road are like this, but given the susceptibility of the drive train a swap around will significantly reduce the risk - the diffs will be taking up the slack and not the VCU.

With regard to the suggestion that the axles are driven at different speeds (i.e. front faster) this is simply not the case - the gearing is identical, I think they meant to infer that under normal driving the power fed through the front wheels and it is only channelled to the rear when the VCU is slipped and tightens up.

Richard
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I'm no mechanic or engineer but what I have learnt from my two years (nearly) on here about this is in post 3 and 23 on this thread.

This is the reaon for the vcu being heated up and cooked over a period of time resulting in failure as described and why so many freelanders are for sale in 2wd only.

I do not know what will happen if you had one smaller and one bigger tyre at the back and front ...a risk that personally I would not take.
 
At the end of the day, I think there is only 1 piece of advice that can be given to (new) Freelander owners - make sure you have all the same make/model of tyres on your car, they are evenly worn and pumped to the correct (and all the same) pressure. To aid this, rotate fronts to back regularly so that wear is even.

If the tyres aren't like this when you buy the vehicle, then budget for a new set and also buyer beware what condition the car will be in.

Anything other than this, then it is your choice/gamble.

I know the consencus is that if you have differently worn tyres, place the larger (less worn) tyres on the back. However, this can only be a very short breather, as the more worn ones on the front will continue to wear faster and exasperate the problem.
 
GrumpyGel said:
At the end of the day, I think there is only 1 piece of advice that can be given to (new) Freelander owners - make sure you have all the same make/model of tyres on your car, they are evenly worn and pumped to the correct (and all the same) pressure. To aid this, rotate fronts to back regularly so that wear is even.

If the tyres aren't like this when you buy the vehicle, then budget for a new set and also buyer beware what condition the car will be in.

Anything other than this, then it is your choice/gamble.

I know the consencus is that if you have differently worn tyres, place the larger (less worn) tyres on the back. However, this can only be a very short breather, as the more worn ones on the front will continue to wear faster and exasperate the problem.
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But you'll still end up with the larger diameter tyres on the rear then when you have to replace the fronts you just move the rears to the front.
 
Tannaton said:
Again to be clear - we were not advising that it was a good strategy, what I was saying to the new member is that with the tyres he had available, the lowest risk configuration would be not to have the pairs with the same amount of wear on the same axle - and I am now certain that this was the correct advice.

I am new to the forum and I have already had a tremendous amount of value from the experience on it but with a complex car like the Freelander, sometimes in certain circumstances there is an off the wall answer and you need to keep looking at things with an open mind and assume nothing.

The difference in tyre size that he has is within LR's own prescribed tolerances anyway, probably most FL1's on the road are like this, but given the susceptibility of the drive train a swap around will significantly reduce the risk - the diffs will be taking up the slack and not the VCU.

With regard to the suggestion that the axles are driven at different speeds (i.e. front faster) this is simply not the case - the gearing is identical, I think they meant to infer that under normal driving the power fed through the front wheels and it is only channelled to the rear when the VCU is slipped and tightens up.

Richard
Click to expand...
The ratio's front and rear are different which creates a 0.8% difference. It was higher but LR reduced it to 0.8% on the 2001 onwards models (started late 2000). It's listed in the rave disk. If you were mad enough to dive in a straight line on a flat road with brand new tyres and the vcu removed, and props replaced by lengths of wood with flags on, you would see the ratio difference front to rear. :eek:

I can understand what your saying by sharing the mix of tyres across the axles: say 3 and 5mm on rear and 3 and 5mm on front. This would mechanically still produce the same prop speed difference front to rear as if you put 2x 5mm on rear and 2x 5mm on the front. The front and rear diffs effectively take a balance of the tyre size on their particular axle pair and present this to the prop.
 
Hippo said:
The ratio's front and rear are different which creates a 0.8% difference. It was higher but LR reduced it to 0.8% on the 2001 onwards models (started late 2000). It's listed in the rave disk. If you were mad enough to dive in a straight line on a flat road with brand new tyres and the vcu removed, and props replaced by lengths of wood with flags on, you would see the ratio difference front to rear. :eek:

I can understand what your saying by sharing the mix of tyres across the axles: say 3 and 5mm on rear and 3 and 5mm on front. This would mechanically still produce the same prop speed difference front to rear as if you put 2x 5mm on rear and 2x 5mm on the front. The front and rear diffs effectively take a balance of the tyre size on their particular axle pair and present this to the prop.
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Interesting. 3mm tread difference equates to about 0.9% of the wheel's dimensions thus will produce a net 0.1% push rather than 0.8% drag - and much nearer to parity on prop rotation speed (VCU slip).
 
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