Freelander 1 Freelander EV

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Talking about EVs, I'm currently looking for an electric moped for No2 daughter, who wants to be mobile when she's 16, and an electric moped might just fit the bill. :eek:
 
kernowsvenski said:
I never cease to be amazed by the ingenuity and expertise being applied in this build @Alibro, along with some of the learned contributions (particularly @Nodge) to aid you along the way.
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Thanks mate but I'm just copying others here. Almost nothing I have done is original. :oops:
I'm also too stupid to know I can't do many things, and it often turns out that I can. :p
 
So I've got back to the welding and grinding again. :) The grinder and painter I am makes me the welder I aint. :p

Having set out the battery pack in the rear of the car I realise I need to cram as many as possible under the bonnet. Even two deep I would struggle to fit the entire pack in the boot and the weight in the rear would be too much.
I had already made the lower section which spent the winter outside (but under the bonnet as can be seen by the corrosion) and today started on the upper tier which as you can see is slightly offset to clear the rear of the headlights.
I can get two large modules on each level and am hoping to make one or maybe even two lower levels to get six or eight large modules under the bonnet.
IMG_20220602_220004531.jpg

IMG_20220602_220017127.jpg


These are the cardboard mock ups of the large modules.
IMG_20220602_214042730.jpg


I still have to figure out how to make a lid for them but getting them mounted securely is the first priority.
 
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Alibro said:
I can get two large modules on each level and am hoping to make one or maybe even two lower levels to get six or eight large modules under the bonnet.
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I'm guessing the orientation of the modules is irrelevant Ali?
Would you be able to fit more in the front, if they were stood on end? Maybe by making the frame deeper? You've plenty of height in the Freelander engine bay, so you can utilise this height to your advantage. ;)
 
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Nodge68 said:
I'm guessing the orientation of the modules is irrelevant Ali?
Would you be able to fit more in the front, if they were stood on end? Maybe by making the frame deeper? You've plenty of height in the Freelander engine bay, so you can utilise this height to your advantage. ;)
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Your right Nodge, they can be mounted pretty much any way up which can be helpful but the easiest way from a fabrication and wiring point of view is to mount them conventionally.
Although there is lots of height in the engine bay, the motor and gearbox take up most of the bottom leaving a fairly narrow gap to the rad and front cross member. I think I will need to mount the modules under this frame on their sides but I haven't yet figured out how I'm going to do that. Hopefully I will get some more done later today.
 
Alibro said:
Although there is lots of height in the engine bay, the motor and gearbox take up most of the bottom leaving a fairly narrow gap to the rad and front cross member. I think I will need to mount the modules under this frame on their sides but I haven't yet figured out how I'm going to do that.
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Is it possible to switch to a smaller rad, and utilise the additional space created? It appears you may be over cooling with the factory rad.
The motor doesn't need a radiator anything like as large as a ICE engine, simply because it's many times more efficient.
The rad from something like an Austin Mini is tiny, and pretty cheap. ;)

Actually a heater matrix will potentially dissipate all the heat you need, leaving lots of space for other stuff at the front.
 
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Nodge68 said:
Is it possible to switch to a smaller rad, and utilise the additional space created? It appears you may be over cooling with the factory rad.
The motor doesn't need a radiator anything like as large as a ICE engine, simply because it's many times more efficient.
The rad from something like an Austin Mini is tiny, and pretty cheap. ;)

Actually a heater matrix will potentially dissipate all the heat you need, leaving lots of space for other stuff at the front.
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The rad came out of the Leaf believe it or not, having said that it is probably more in direct airflow than it would be in the Leaf and our climate is a good deal cooler than the rad was designed to cope with so it is a good call and I'll take another look.
However I think the lower front cross member would be in the way and I still want to keep the batteries as far back as possible for minor accident protection. so I'll probably stick with the current setup for Mk1.
 
Alibro said:
The rad came out of the Leaf believe it or not, having said that it is probably more in direct airflow than it would be in the Leaf and our climate is a good deal cooler than the rad was designed to cope with so it is a good call and I'll take another look.
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It was just a thought Ali.
That rad is enormous for an electric motor.
I've seen people using the leaf motor without cooling (not in high load condition, but it is obvious pretty efficient thermally.
Of course you could also plumb in the heater, which will take some of the excess heat away in winter. ;)

I can't see that size rad being used to capacity in NI, or anywhere else in the UK.
 
Nodge68 said:
It was just a thought Ali.
That rad is enormous for an electric motor.
I've seen people using the leaf motor without cooling (not in high load condition, but it is obvious pretty efficient thermally.
Of course you could also plumb in the heater, which will take some of the excess heat away in winter. ;)

I can't see that size rad being used to capacity in NI, or anywhere else in the UK.
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It is huge all right but much thinner than the standard Freelander one. As this is my first ever build I want to be cautious and would rather over cool than under cool. The rad will be cooling the motor and Inverter while driving and the charger when charging so may be more necessary than you might think.
 
Alibro said:
It is huge all right but much thinner than the standard Freelander one. As this is my first ever build I want to be cautious and would rather over cool than under cool. The rad will be cooling the motor and Inverter while driving and the charger when charging so may be more necessary than you might think.
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I guess you can monitor the the coolant temperature while using it, then maybe adjust the cooling capability of the next one, once you know the cooling demands imposed by the system.;)
 
Nodge68 said:
I guess you can monitor the the coolant temperature while using it, then maybe adjust the cooling capability of the next one, once you know the cooling demands imposed by the system.;)
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Yes, this is very much a learning situation and MkII will probably be very different. ;)
I plan to use an arduino to monitor the temp and if I can figure out how, send a signal to the temp gauge. I'm not sure if the pumps that came with the Leaf were running full speed or if they were fed by a PWM signal. I'll take a look at the wiring diagram and figure it out at some stage but will probably have them running full speed all the time initially.
 
Alibro said:
I plan to use an arduino to monitor the temp and if I can figure out how
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That would be cool Ali.
Alibro said:
I'm not sure if the pumps that came with the Leaf were running full speed or if they were fed by a PWM signal. I'll take a look at the wiring diagram and figure it out at some stage but will probably have them running full speed all the time initially.
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I can't see you'd gain anything by running the pump with a PWM supply. Me I'd use the factory 35°C E box sensor to trigger the pump when the coolant gets to 35°C, which is about right for the stuff you need to keep cool. ;)
 
Nodge68 said:
That would be cool Ali.

I can't see you'd gain anything by running the pump with a PWM supply. Me I'd use the factory 35°C E box sensor to trigger the pump when the coolant gets to 35°C, which is about right for the stuff you need to keep cool. ;)
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I think the motor and inverter need to be cooled the whole time they are being used so I would need the pump running the whole time, don't forget there is no mechanical pump. Maybe I could use one of those to trigger the cooling fans on the rad. ;)
 
Alibro said:
I think the motor and inverter need to be cooled the whole time they are being used so I would need the pump running the whole time, don't forget there is no mechanical pump.
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Possibly.
I guess a running a small pump all the time isn't going too use much energy.

However having the fans temperature switched is sensible, as fans use loads of power compared to a small electric pump.
 
Alibro said:
I've learned a lot about sending CAN messages and hopefully now have a reliable way of sending the CAN that will be needed later.
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I'm going to have to pick your brains about CAN at some point in the future, I've got an eight speed autobox out of a jag that I want to use in something daft, and it's ECU is built into the valve block, and does everything via CAN, so to make this work I'm either going to have to run external wiring direct to the solenoids, or rattle up an arduino that essentially seduces the ZF ecu on the valve block by whispering sweet ones and nothings into its ears, wooing it to change gear, and that's got to be done via CAN bus.

Alibro said:
I'm also too stupid to know I can't do many things, and it often turns out that I can. :p
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When Philo T. Farnsworth invented the Cathode Ray Tube, all the glass blowers he (and his brothers iirc) went to said that shape can't be blown, so they taught themselves glass blowing, and because they didn't know what couldn't be done the went ahead and done that which conventional wisdom said could not be done. So yeah, not knowing you can't do something can actually be a good thing, as after all, "the human spirit is limitless, but fear, uncertainty and doubt are learned."
 
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