Freelander 1 Freelander EV

Aha, so that WAS a power steering reservoir and not a flux capacitor!!

Happy Christmas!

andyfreelandy said:

Aha, so that WAS a power steering reservoir and not a flux capacitor!!

Happy Christmas!

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You spotted my dastardly plan to take over the world with an EVil flying Freelander.

Foiled again.
Drat

Houston we have a problem.
This was what I was thinking yesterday after I decided to test the fit the motor beside the IRD.
If you looked at the photo earlier in this thread I showed the cardboard template on the adapter and the IRD is very close.
TBH it's been bothering me for quite a while so last night I made up a makeshift coupler with a couple of bits of pipe and some tape to see how close it is and the answer is too close.
If I cut off one of the mounting points on the motor I could turn it around 10 or 15 degrees from where I originally wanted and it might fit but I'm not sure.
And I'm concerned I could cut through a cooling channel if I'm not careful.

By turning the motor a bit this is the best it can fit.


As you can see here the top of the motor needs to move 5 to 10mm for it to sit correctly.

So last night I PM'd Nodge to discuss it with him and we came up with a couple of suggestions but until I gave it a try I wouldn't know for sure.

After sleeping on it I figured I'd gone too far to stop now so decided to go for it and chopped off the motor mount that was the main blocker.


Once the mount was out of the way I had to grind back several mm of the motor and the IRD. You can see here how much I had to remove by looking at the bolts.


But after a lot of flap wheel action this was the result.



They are still pretty much touching and I suspect I'll need to remove a bit more to get the coupler in perfect alignment but I think it should be OK



I think we were just a few millimetres from the whole project being scuppered so getting the motor flat on the adapter was a massive relief.

I believe the words are "Aye! You'll F#@KING go!!"

Looking at the first pic, did you consider a 45 turn anti clockwise, or is it a motor cooling issue?

J

marjon said:

Looking at the first pic, did you consider a 45 turn anti clockwise, or is it a motor cooling issue?

J

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I tried it every way but it made no difference. In the end cutting off the motor mount and grinding back the case flanges on both the IRD and the motor was the best way. It might have been possible to raise the motor by 30 or 40mm to move the case flanges away from each other but even then it would have required the mount to be cut off and some grinding. It would also mean a complete redesign which I didn't want to do.

Alibro said:

I tried it every way but it made no difference. In the end cutting off the motor mount and grinding back the case flanges on both the IRD and the motor was the best way. It might have been possible to raise the motor by 30 or 40mm to move the case flanges away from each other but even then it would have required the mount to be cut off and some grinding. It would also mean a complete redesign which I didn't want to do.

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Fair enough,
not going to question your decision your the guy on site with hands on.

Maybe a bracket at the ends to hold positions? If it proves to become a problem.

J

marjon said:

Fair enough,
not going to question your decision your the guy on site with hands on.

Maybe a bracket at the ends to hold positions? If it proves to become a problem.

J

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The motor is circular so there is no good position, just lots of worse positions because of the artefacts on on the casing.
Once the gearbox and motor are bolted to the adapter plate it should be OK. The priority is to ensure they are inline so there is no misalignment or the whole thing will shake itself apart.

Nothing wrong with a bit of careful adjustment to the the cases of the motor or IRD Ali.

It looks like you should be able make up a stout bracket that bridges between the motor and IRD, which will keep them from moving independently of each other, and could also double up as the mount for that end too.

Nodge68 said:

Nothing wrong with a bit of careful adjustment to the the cases of the motor or IRD Ali.

It looks like you should be able make up a stout bracket that bridges between the motor and IRD, which will keep them from moving independently of each other, and could also double up as the mount for that end too.

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The IRD bolts directly to the gearbox and is pretty solid, the motor will bolt to the adapter plate and should also be pretty solid so I'm not overly concerned about anything moving but brackets will need to be made anyway so a bit of extra reinforcement will do no harm.

I have the Dexron 3 so now I'm thinking of playing with the power steering tomorrow.

Alibro said:

I have the Dexron 3 so now I'm thinking of playing with the power steering tomorrow.

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Sounds like some fun testing that. Are you going to measure the current draw of the pump motor when running off load and when assisting the steering?

Nodge68 said:

Sounds like some fun testing that. Are you going to measure the current draw of the pump motor when running off load and when assisting the steering?

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LOL, not used to you being up this late Nodge, You off work tomorrow?
Yes I'll use my clamp ammeter to check current drain at rest and when turning the wheels. I've kept the battery fully charged and connected while messing about with the other stuff so should be a proper test.

Alibro said:

LOL, not used to you being up this late Nodge, You off work tomorrow?
Yes I'll use my clamp ammeter to check current drain at rest and when turning the wheels. I've kept the battery fully charged and connected while messing about with the other stuff so should be a proper test.

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Lol. I was up later than normal for some last minute groceries, and no work Christmas Eve.

It's definitely worth getting some basic energy consumption tests done on the PS pump.
I'm hoping that off load, the current draw will be negotiable, which is good for range.

I have also looked at an alternative PS design, where the steering column would be replaced by one from an MGF. They are pretty similar in design, size and component location to the FL1 column, but have the inclusion of a PS electric motor, which uses a stand alone ECU.

Although if the electric over hydraulic PS system isn't too energy hungry, then that's the easiest route to take.

Nodge68 said:

Lol. I was up later than normal for some last minute groceries, and no work Christmas Eve.

It's definitely worth getting some basic energy consumption tests done on the PS pump.
I'm hoping that off load, the current draw will be negotiable, which is good for range.

I have also looked at an alternative PS design, where the steering column would be replaced by one from an MGF. They are pretty similar in design, size and component location to the FL1 column, but have the inclusion of a PS electric motor, which uses a stand alone ECU.

Although if the electric over hydraulic PS system isn't too energy hungry, then that's the easiest route to take.

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I've heard it is very noisy. Not normally a problem with a diseasil rattling away beside it but not great in an EV, current drain shouldn't be too much of an issue as the 12V battery will be kept charged by the HV battery but as you say good to have a benchmark.
It's funny you mention the F and TF steering racks. I thought of that too but wanted to keep everything as simple as possible for this build. Maybe next time.

Alibro said:

I've heard it is very noisy. Not normally a problem with a diseasil rattling away beside it but not great in an EV

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That's something that I was wondering myself. Maybe there's a way to shut it down when it's not required, like when sitting at the traffic lights and stuff?

Alibro said:

current drain shouldn't be too much of an issue as the 12V battery will be kept charged by the HV battery but as you say good to have a benchmark.

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Of course, but obviously you don't want the PS to be reducing the range by 30 miles.

Alibro said:

It's funny you mention the F and TF steering racks. I thought of that too but wanted to keep everything as simple as possible for this build. Maybe next time.

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If you want some dimensions, I've an F column here, waiting to go into my Avenger, as I'm keen to get that fitted with PS.

Nodge68 said:

That's something that I was wondering myself. Maybe there's a way to shut it down when it's not required, like when sitting at the traffic lights and stuff?

Of course, but obviously you don't want the PS to be reducing the range by 30 miles.

If you want some dimensions, I've an F column here, waiting to go into my Avenger, as I'm keen to get that fitted with PS.

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Lol hopefully not 30 miles but defo worth checking.
If you could get the dimensions that would be great thanks. F and TF steering should be as cheap as chips now the scrap yards are full of them. You'd think it would be a better match than a Corsa steering column.

Alibro said:

Lol hopefully not 30 miles but defo worth checking.

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Definitely.

Alibro said:

If you could get the dimensions that would be great thanks. F and TF steering should be as cheap as chips now the scrap yards are full of them.

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No problem. I've got to dig it's storage crate out of storage over the Christmas break anyway, as I need my engine crane, which is buried behind my storage crates.

Alibro said:

You'd think it would be a better match than a Corsa steering column.

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I'd think so, as they share the same DNA. The column lock is on the correct side, and is the same design. Also the stalk assembly is very similar, as is the wiring, and I'm pretty sure the drive splines will also be compatible. Which will make it easier to fit the FL1, with the obvious safety benefits.

While this will never be a lotus elise in terms of driver feedback / handling, the electro-hydraulic system has by far and a way more feedback than an electric system. It's also worth noting that the power steering pump's current draw will be affected by the lack of weight over the axle. Also, if you put the MGF/TF column in, you'd still need to do something with the hydraulics to prevent them hydrolocking the rack or being open to the introduction of dirt/water into the racks internals, probably nothing more than looking the hoses to each other, but still something you need to be aware of.

Jayridium said:

While this will never be a lotus elise in terms of driver feedback / handling, the electro-hydraulic system has by far and a way more feedback than an electric system. It's also worth noting that the power steering pump's current draw will be affected by the lack of weight over the axle. Also, if you put the MGF/TF column in, you'd still need to do something with the hydraulics to prevent them hydrolocking the rack or being open to the introduction of dirt/water into the racks internals, probably nothing more than looking the hoses to each other, but still something you need to be aware of.

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I had an F for a couple of years and never had a problem with the steering. So not sure it would be a issue.
I'm a bit confused what you mean about the hydraulics as the F steering is electric. If installing the F steering I'd be removing the hydraulics. Or have I picked it up wrong.

As I read it, you and John might be looking at putting an MGF electric power steering column onto the freelander hydraulic power steering rack, and it was the hydraulics at the rack you'd need to "do something".