Freelander 2 sd4 automatic gearbox

Hi
2014 and just on 100k miles. Magic car until: -
The auto box is giving clunks and rough gear changes, feeling as though stalling with rev drop in slow stop/start traffic and reversing. All problems when hot. Nothing when cold.
Heldrex serviced at 83k, g/box flushed and electronics updated when problems first started.
No fault codes showing and local independent agent is unable to replicate problems. So far has replaced stoplight switches and the egr assembly both at the agents suggestion.
Where to go from here?

I would be suspicious of a garage saying they had done an update on the gearbox electronics. Not unusual to say this to convince the owner they have done somefink that cant be proven.

When the fault occurrs can you manually select gears by pushing the gear lever to the left, then forwards/backwards to change gear... does the fault then go away?

The FL2 saves adaptive info on the gearbox. You can reset the adptations yourself. Its worth a try... but ONLY after you have tried selecting gears manually, to see if the fault then goes away. We need to know if this corrects the problen in its current state.

Reset gearbox adaotations:

If yer FL2 uses a key fob in the dash, then put it in. If it's the later remote fob only type, make sure it's inside the car.
Turn on the ignition electrics only (don't start the engine) using the start/stop button.
Press the accellerator pedel fully to the floor and hold there for 30 seconds.
Let go of the accellerator pedal.
Switch oft the electrics using the start/stop button - if yours uses a key fob in the dash, leave it in.
Wait 30 seconds.
Start the car as you normally would.

The gear changes may feel slightly pronounced after the above reset mothod. It will become smooth (like it shold be) as you continue to drive it, as the gearbox learns. There's no need to thrash it. Just drive it as normal. Thats assuming the fault clears. If it doesn't then you will still have the same problems as before.

Edit spelling

Hippo said:

Not unusual to say this to convince the owner they have done somefink that cant be proven.

Click to expand...

It can be proven by anyone with a suitable code reader, as there's a software version and issue date in the module information file.

Hi
My local main agent proved software update.
As the fault - which is becoming more often, occurs only occasionally when hot in mainly heavy traffic conditions on local roads Can I use the command process for an extended length of time? Still to use gbox reset

Update
Attempted to pull away up a slope. Auto box stalled the car. Repeated using command OK first gear. Unable to change.
Repeated setup using reverse box attempted to stall the car.
Old school terminology -fluttering throttle
All attempts after 15mins of travel
Engine runns smooth in nuteral and park
Recon box? Suggestions In Cornwall?

Hippo said:

I would be suspicious of a garage saying they had done an update on the gearbox ekectrknics. Not unusual to say this to convince the owner they have done somefink that cant be proven.

When the fault occurrs can you manually select gears by pushing the gear lever to the left, then forwards/backwards to change gear... does the fault then go away?

The FL2 saves adaptive info on the gearbox. You can reset the adptations yourself. Its worth a try... but ONLY after you have tried selecting gears manually, to see if the fault then goes away. We need to know if this corrects the problen in its current state.

Reset gearbox adaotations:

If yer FL2 uses a key fob in the dash, then put it in. If it's the later remote fob only type, make sure it's inside the car.
Turn on the ignition electrics only (don't start the engine) using the start/stop button.
Press the accellerator pedel fully to the floor and hold there for 30 seconds.
Let go of the accellerator pedal.
Switch oft the electrics using the start/stop button - if yours uses a key fob in the dash, leave it in.
Wait 30 seconds.
Start the car as you normally would.

The gear changes may feel slightly pronounced after the above reset mothod. It will become smooth (like it shold be) as you continue to drive it, as the gearbox learns. There's no need to thrash it. Just drive it as normal. Thats assuming the fault clears. If it doesn't then you will still have the same problems as before.

Click to expand...

Hi
Manual command the problem goes away. When the problem occurs no throttle response in D or R

Nandad said:

Hi
Manual command the problem goes away. When the problem occurs no throttle response in D or R

Click to expand...

That would make me think the car is having problems detecting and choosing how to use the gearbox. Like wrong gear or shift change decision, causing the hill stalling. Does it stall on level ground when pulling away? In manual command mode will it select all 6 gears as the car accellerates? If so that proves mechanical drive is ok. Lack of throttle response is key to the problem here. The engine and gearbox computers work together. Can the engine get the car up to 70mph in 6th gear manually? This prooves the engine can do so and has power. Which would make me think the problem is down to decision making. Sensor reading problems. Gearbox or possibly engine. The computers may be limiting engine revs in auto mode by mistake.

Hippo said:

That would make me think the car is having problems detecting and choosing how to use the gearbox. Like wrong gear or shift change decision, causing the hill stalling. Does it stall on level ground when pulling away? In manual command mode will it select all 6 gears as the car accellerates? If so that proves mechanical drive is ok. Lack of throttle response is key to the problem here. The engine and gearbox computers work together. Can the engine get the car up to 70mph in 6th gear manually? This prooves the engine can do so and has power. Which would make me think the problem is down to decision making. Sensor reading problems. Gearbox or possibly engine. The computers may be limiting engine revs in auto mode by mistake.

Click to expand...

Silly question I know but how many should be available in command mode? Only find 2.

Nandad said:

Silly question I know but how many should be available in command mode? Only find 2.

Click to expand...

There's 6 gears going forward on yer FL2 auto. You will have to increase speed to be able to select them all manually. 1st gear is quite low. If you pull away at normal pace in auto mode it will change from 1st to 2nd after about 6 foot. So hardly noticeable unless yer watching out for it.

While stationary you will only be able to select 1st and 2nd manually. It will be slow to move oft in 2nd from stationary. I wouldn't advise doing so. 1st gear is there to get it moving, before changing to 2nd which is higher geared like 3 to 6 are.

You can change up manually a few hundred rpm earlier than the car will in auto. 1,600 ~ 1,700 seems to be the optimum.
Don't worry about changing down, unless you want to drop a gear and hoof it. The car changes down in both manual and auto. The trick is remembering you're still in manual, as before you realise you're doing 60 and red-lining the revcounter.
Habitually driving in manual will improve your fuel consumption by around 5mpg (it did for me)

Since the temperature has dropped the b####y motor has run perfectly. 85mph in 6th in manual command so I can assume that clears any mechanical problems. On another site a premis was put forward about a possible egr issue linked to outside temperature. Comments?
Still no codes shown, that demonstrates my entire electronic skill so I'm reliant on external sources. Mechanical sensors I can change but would a skilled auto electrician be able to interrogate engine/gearbox circuitry to reach any reason?

When was the auto gearbox oil last changed?

Do you know if the code reader is working correctly. Can it read fault codes on the gearbox? We have a simular problem with the FL1 where certain readers cant read the auto gearbox. Owners are tricked into thinking theres no fault code and the reader confirms this. The truth is theres no code because the reader cant read it. But the reader doesn't say that.

Cant see an auto electrician being much help. An honest one will confirm this. Others may come up with work that needs done to generate business. We have seen this before.

The engine and auto gearbox computers work together, sharing info. Its quite possible a sluggish engine could cause gear shift problems. Or lack of use of higher gears as it thinks the engine doesn't have enough power. Whats the 0 to 60mph performance like? You should feel power across the whole rev range, in each gear, in nirmal driving. Not as much in 6th as its quite high.

If they think it could be the egr then you could give it an inspection and clean. Cars do run betterer when air is cooler as there's more oxygen in a defined volume, as air reduces in volume when it cools. Hence more oxygen per L.

Gearbox oil was changed 12.3k ago. I used a icorsoft reader but I will get the codes interrogated by the local gearbox specialist to check my readings.
Using the command gear the engine is giving smooth power upto 85mph in 5th gear and still showing willing.
The original problem remains, clunky changes and bouncing gear changes up and down the box whilst at constant revs and acting as if.starved of fuel when hot and has actually stalled in reverse. And as the problem is intermittent is becoming a real pain. Considering getting the car into a recommended garage and a hotel room till its sorted.

Did you try the auto gearbox adaptation reset above? Did it nake a difference.

Hippo said:

Did you try the auto gearbox adaptation reset above? Did it nake a difference.

Click to expand...

Nope. No difference at all. Been missed by another car when pulling out of a side onto a main road from a stop, the car bogged down and stalled. Its run perfectly since. Could that stall have reset something? No error codes shown up at a local main agent both before and after . I even got the second one for free!

Nandad said:

Nope. No difference at all. Been missed by another car when pulling out of a side onto a main road from a stop, the car bogged down and stalled. Its run perfectly since. Could that stall have reset something? No error codes shown up at a local main agent both before and after . I even got the second one for free!

Click to expand...

I can't see a stall itself reseting anything. Certains things are reset when you restart the engine. But it shouldn't stall when in gear on an auto. That makes me think it's either in the wrong gear (too high a gear) or a sensor is playing up, causing power loss.

Edit spelling

Local agent is at a complete loss. Unable to duplicate issue using a rolling road. What sensors control engine speed to gear selection? Use command sequence all the time?

Nandad said:

Local agent is at a complete loss. Unable to duplicate issue using a rolling road. What sensors control engine speed to gear selection? Use command sequence all the time?

Click to expand...

The FL2 will use sensor information from the engine, auto gearbox and ABS to orchestrate gear change and performance. I'm not sure at the moment which sensor would cause the fault you have. A rolling road doesn't have the same effect on a vehicle as driving it on the road. There's a reduced amount of load fighting against the vehicle, because there's no wind. Hence cars perform differently as the load on them is reduced.

Intermittent faults like this are difficult to resolve. It's for this reason I have recorded info on my FL2 with my own diagnostic so I know typical values in different situations. Like driving at speed, on tickover when warm etc. Think I'm the only one on ere who's committed to doing this for future reference.

The nature of the fault you have is going to be difficult to detect. Guessing which sensor is at fault will be difficult unless someone on ere has had the same fault and can advise what was done to fix it. You could then investigate if their fix is linked to your problem. If the fault becomes permanent it should be easier to solve.

I think we need to know what the diagnostics reports when the fault occurs. This would require you to have your own diagnostic device to read fault codes yourself, when the fault occurs. Not all diagnostics will be able to read all computers on the FL2. I use the GAP IID when mobile or an old Hawkeye (limited use on FL2's and no longer manufactured. Can't see much info on the auto gearbox) to record info from my FL2. The GAP IID is expensive but it can record info so you can leave it monitoring 2 different values. Or follow what I do and select 8 values and record them with a screen recorder application on your mobile phone instead. If the fault occurs, look to see what those values did at the time. Then repeat with the next set of values. Keep going until you find something of interest when the fault occurs. I'm hoping a sensor reading may wonder about just before the fault occurs. There's also the option of SDD and a mongoose cable but that requires a computer to run the software on. Cheap to buy a 'copy' cable. This is the software LR main dealers use.

The only alternative is to put your FL2 into a LR main dealer for a 1 hour inspection and investigation. Not cheap but it will be looked at by mechanics who will have seen all sorts of faults on a FL2 and resolved them. We have this option in the UK. You pay a fixed price for 1 hour of work. If they spot a fault you have the option to pay them more money to fix it or take the car elsewhere.

Freelander dpf regeneration video = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gf_T2R8oxbU

Freelander 2 SD4 Engine Computer Live Data = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIa_j85qecY

Thank you so much for all of your help. The landi is booked in at the local main agent and I have asked them to sort it. Their consuses of ideas surround fuel pressure and temperature. I have passed on all of your pointers to them. Your knowledge should be recorded somewhere for anyone to use. Thanks Hippo. I owe you one!

Any luck getting this resolved?