Failed Crank Bearings - RRS 2011 - TDV6

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Have your crank bearings failed on your TDV6

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Steve DY

Member
Posts
11
Location
stratford-upon-avon
My crank bearings and crank failed and it cost me £9k to get a replacement re-con engine fitted.
I know that this is a design fault and that there are hundreds if not thousands of us out there who JLR have washed their hands of as we are generally out of warranty.
I intend to go to take JLR to small claims court to try and recover some of my costs and would like to hear from anyone who has experienced similar problems.
If i can get enough info together and win in court then it could pave the way for others.
Please feel free to contact me - sdoyle@cgl,eu.com - if you have a had the same - strength in numbers and all that!
 
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Presumably this is a Discovery? What age and mileage is the vehicle?

You may do well to look on the Discovery 3 and 4 Owners Club on Facebook (almost every other day this is reported) or Disco3.co.uk
 
Did you have a full Land Rover dealer service history, if so, did you approach Land Rover for a contribution to cover the costs.
If you don't I think you're farting against the wind, but I wish you the best of luck
 
I don't think they can dismiss it on the basis of no LR dealer service history, but I'm sure a full service history of some sort would be required.
 
tom1979 said:
Presumably this is a Discovery? What age and mileage is the vehicle?

You may do well to look on the Discovery 3 and 4 Owners Club on Facebook (almost every other day this is reported) or Disco3.co.uk
Click to expand...
Hi Tom,
It's actually a Range Rover Sport - 2011 plate - 3.0 TDV6 - thanks for the info on the facebook group - I'll have a look.
 
Iancorky said:
Did you have a full Land Rover dealer service history, if so, did you approach Land Rover for a contribution to cover the costs.
If you don't I think you're farting against the wind, but I wish you the best of luck
Click to expand...
Hi Ian,

Yes i have full JLR service history and I've approached JLR who have refused to help. I was out of warranty when it happened!
I am in the automotive industry myself and I know a lot of people at JLR in senior powertrain positions and the noises are that they have tried to bury this. They knew it was a problem but recall would have so expensive they kept quiet.
I think under Consumer rights act 2015 which in turn refers to the sales of good act - then roughly - If a product isn't fit for purpose or perishes with a reasonable time (the key being "reasonable") through no fault of the consumer then then consumer is entitled to a replacement or refund...
OK what's "reasonable" for "total engine failure"? Mine was 72,000 miles and 5 and a bit years old.
That doesn't seem reasonable in this day and age?
We'll see - I've got some experience with small claims court and have won previously so i think it's worth a shout!
 
Steve DY said:
Hi Ian,

Yes i have full JLR service history and I've approached JLR who have refused to help. I was out of warranty when it happened!
I am in the automotive industry myself and I know a lot of people at JLR in senior powertrain positions and the noises are that they have tried to bury this. They knew it was a problem but recall would have so expensive they kept quiet.
I think under Consumer rights act 2015 which in turn refers to the sales of good act - then roughly - If a product isn't fit for purpose or perishes with a reasonable time (the key being "reasonable") through no fault of the consumer then then consumer is entitled to a replacement or refund...
OK what's "reasonable" for "total engine failure"? Mine was 72,000 miles and 5 and a bit years old.
That doesn't seem reasonable in this day and age?
We'll see - I've got some experience with small claims court and have won previously so i think it's worth a shout!
Click to expand...

Not sure what they cost new, but it wouldn't have been cheap and that age and mileage is certainly nowhere near what you'd expect to get out of it. At the very least they should be supplying you a new engine even if you have to pay to get it fitted. But like you say, it's a common and known defect so why should you. In the South African article I linked to they suggest "Land Rover has a list of all engine numbers and know exactly who has and will be affected". They also state it was an assembly fault so I don't see how they would know which engines were affected.
 
tom1979 said:
I found this but it only mentions pre-2012 engines and relates to South Africa. I have also heard of this happening on the 3.0 SDV6 (2012-) engines though.
https://www.iol.co.za/motoring/cars/land-rover/unease-grows-over-land-rover-engine-1925479
Click to expand...
Funnily enough a friend of mine from JLR (very senior) was at the press launch of the new RRS in South Africa a few years back. I customer hijacked the event when he turned up - to the dealership where they did the official unveiling - towing his old Range Rover Sport with 4 donkeys . He has painted the vehicle up with "engine failure - don't by RRS" - he had to be rapidly escorted away before the press got hold of pictures!!!
 
According to this the problem is documented in a land rover bulletin SSM71816
http://ukcar.reviews/landrover-discovery4-l319-2009-problems-recalls/

Specifically,
"In May 2014, Land Rover issued service bulletin SSM71816 for Land Rover Discovery 4 vehicles that had V6 diesel engines manufactured from 2009 to 2012, i.e. the Discovery 4 2.7L TDV6, 3.0L TDV6 and 3.0L SDV6. According to the bulletin, these vehicles could experience crankshaft failure due to:
  • Incorrect location of the main crankshaft bearing shells during assembly; or,
  • Rotation of the crankshaft bearing shells during normal use.
Owners have reported experiencing sudden engine failure and having had less than thirty (30) seconds to pull off the road once abnormal engine noises are heard. The service bulletin lists the following as symptoms of crankshaft failure:
  • The engine may make a loud ‘rumbling/knocking’ noise when running which worsens under load. Furthermore, the engine oil pressure warning light may flash or be continuously illuminated, especially at low engine speeds;
  • There may be a hole in the oil sump or engine cylinder block, with oil leakage and/or metallic debris in the under-tray; and,
  • If the crankshaft seized, it would not be possible to turn the engine (via the starter motor or crankshaft pulley bolt).
    It is understood that a new crankshaft bearing design was introduced in 2012 to prevent crankshaft bearing failure.    "
 
Five years will be engine manufacturers warranty to Land Rover I suspect, so any older than five years I presume will be deemed owners responsibility
 
freelance said:
Five years will be engine manufacturers warranty to Land Rover I suspect, so any older than five years I presume will be deemed owners responsibility
Click to expand...

I think manufacturers warranty is only 3 years, the next two years would be extended warranty. I have read about people in the extended warranty period where JLR have refused any assistance at all.
 
tom1979 said:
I think manufacturers warranty is only 3 years, the next two years would be extended warranty. I have read about people in the extended warranty period where JLR have refused any assistance at all.
Click to expand...

Not that my opinion means anything but it's not really a warranty issue. JLR discovered they had produced a disposable prestige SUV with a known tendancy for catastrophic engine failure well within the normal lifespan of any cheap eurobox and chose to do nothing to rectify a design and production fault on vehicles already sold.

Whether it's in or out of warranty there should be a not fit for purpose case to answer but everything I've heard suggests they'll fight it all the way.
 
freelance said:
Five years will be engine manufacturers warranty to Land Rover I suspect, so any older than five years I presume will be deemed owners responsibility
Click to expand...
"the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

The Act states the car must be “of a satisfactory quality”, “fit for purpose” and “as described”. (For a used car, “satisfactory quality” takes into account the car’s age and mileage.)

You have a right to reject something faulty and you are entitled to a full refund within 30 days of purchase in most cases.

After 30 days you lose the short-term right to reject the goods.

You’ll also have fewer rights, such as only being able to ask for a repair or replacement, or a partial refund.

In fact, you’re legally allowed to return it up to six years after you bought it (in Scotland, it’s five years after you first realised there was a problem).

But it gets more difficult to prove a fault and not normal wear and tear is the cause of any problem"
 
tom1979 said:
According to this the problem is documented in a land rover bulletin SSM71816
http://ukcar.reviews/landrover-discovery4-l319-2009-problems-recalls/

Specifically,
"In May 2014, Land Rover issued service bulletin SSM71816 for Land Rover Discovery 4 vehicles that had V6 diesel engines manufactured from 2009 to 2012, i.e. the Discovery 4 2.7L TDV6, 3.0L TDV6 and 3.0L SDV6. According to the bulletin, these vehicles could experience crankshaft failure due to:
  • Incorrect location of the main crankshaft bearing shells during assembly; or,
  • Rotation of the crankshaft bearing shells during normal use.
Owners have reported experiencing sudden engine failure and having had less than thirty (30) seconds to pull off the road once abnormal engine noises are heard. The service bulletin lists the following as symptoms of crankshaft failure:
  • The engine may make a loud ‘rumbling/knocking’ noise when running which worsens under load. Furthermore, the engine oil pressure warning light may flash or be continuously illuminated, especially at low engine speeds;
  • There may be a hole in the oil sump or engine cylinder block, with oil leakage and/or metallic debris in the under-tray; and,
  • If the crankshaft seized, it would not be possible to turn the engine (via the starter motor or crankshaft pulley bolt).
    It is understood that a new crankshaft bearing design was introduced in 2012 to prevent crankshaft bearing failure.    "
Click to expand...
This is really useful - thank you...
 
blue beasty said:
Not that my opinion means anything but it's not really a warranty issue. JLR discovered they had produced a disposable prestige SUV with a known tendancy for catastrophic engine failure well within the normal lifespan of any cheap eurobox and chose to do nothing to rectify a design and production fault on vehicles already sold.

Whether it's in or out of warranty there should be a not fit for purpose case to answer but everything I've heard suggests they'll fight it all the way.
Click to expand...

I hope they do fight it all the way - and so will I... I have inside info from JLR which unfortunately i can't use as don't want to get mates their into trouble - but definitely suggests they tried to cover this up...

i.e. it should have been a re-call but the cost to do so was so high they just crossed their fingers and left the cars out there. I know guys who were working on Dynos before the engine even went on sale that knew the bearings could spin - but it was too late and production went ahead... I'll be asking JLR to produce the data to show they had done due diligence i.e.durability and quality sign off (PPAP and FMEA etc.)...
 
tom1979 said:
Glad I haven't got mates like yours!
Click to expand...
;-)) tbf one of them did offer to buy it off me before i had it repaired - and for a good price - he's senior enough to have got his hands on a newish engine and had it fitted for practically nothing - however - i foolishly declined and hence lost a packet on it when i sold it for way less than i thought i should have got!
 
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