Erratic tickover and blue smoke

SuperDaz · Sep 26, 2009

1984 "90" 2.5 N/A diesel, 180,000miles - Erratic tickover and blue smoke!!

I don't think they are related.

It's been smoking since new pistons/skimmed head/re-ground valves etc. 2000 miles ago. I thought it should be run in by now but there is lots of proper blue smoke when you take your foot off the throttle in 1st/2nd/3rd gears especially if going downhill and using engine breaking. Any ideas?

As for the tickover, it's been idling quite fast for the last couple of weeks but today at the lights, junctions etc. it would go from fast to slow and lumpy back to fast and the slow again without me touching the throttle at all. It sort of seems to have a misfire too (is that possible with diesel?) especially when first starting up from cold. As previous, any ideas.

Daz

Sirus · Sep 26, 2009

You want a 200tdi fitting..

SuperDaz · Sep 26, 2009

Sirus said:
You want a 200tdi fitting..

I want to pay off my overdraft 1st!

September alone has been;
Back box
Middle box
Front frigging pipe
Wheel bearing
No rear lights at all (except brakes)
Propshaft

all of which have been forced spends.

Ho..hum... I still love it though (although it's harder to remember why some days)

Sirus · Sep 26, 2009

SuperDaz said:
I want to pay off my overdraft 1st!

September alone has been;
Back box
Middle box
Front frigging pipe
Wheel bearing
No rear lights at all (except brakes)
Propshaft

all of which have been forced spends.

Ho..hum... I still love it though (although it's harder to remember why some days)

Wants a nice 200tdi just to top it off then.....did I mention theres one in me garage waiting to be fitted???

jamescronin · Sep 26, 2009

Sirus - How much do you want for it? do you have i/c and rad?

As for engine looks like something is going wrong with it

180,000 is pushing it a bit - who did the rebuild? may want them to have a look as sounds as if smoke is due to oil getting past rings. - do you have a compression guage?

Erratic ideling could be lots of things ( but likely injection system out of adjustment/nackered. Does it run well when at (high) speed?

Sirus · Sep 26, 2009

Its straight out of the disco at the minute...ready to be rebuilt think its going to be a spare incase anything goes wrong.

SuperDaz · Sep 27, 2009

jamescronin said:
As for engine looks like something is going wrong with it 180,000 is pushing it a bit - who did the rebuild? may want them to have a look as sounds as if smoke is due to oil getting past rings. - do you have a compression guage?

No compression guage

. Me and a garage 'friend of a friend' rebuilt it after one of the pistons broke up (replaced all four). So there's no warranty but we used good quality parts. There was some wear to the bore where the broken piston was "slapping" but finances and time wouldn't run to a re-bore.

jamescronin said:
Erratic ideling could be lots of things ( but likely injection system out of adjustment/nackered. Does it run well when at (high) speed?

Yes, it runs ok, it's just the idle that varies.

Daz

gemsdad · Sep 27, 2009

SuperDaz said:
No compression guage . Me and a garage 'friend of a friend' rebuilt it after one of the pistons broke up (replaced all four). So there's no warranty but we used good quality parts. There was some wear to the bore where the broken piston was "slapping" but finances and time wouldn't run to a re-bore.

Yes, it runs ok, it's just the idle that varies.

Daz

sorry to say but it sounds like oil getting past the rings,you should have waited until you could have it re-bored.the work and money you have already spent on it could be wasted.

HOOK · Sep 27, 2009

fuel filter loose pipe

SuperDaz · Sep 27, 2009

gemsdad said:
sorry to say but it sounds like oil getting past the rings,you should have waited until you could have it re-bored.the work and money you have already spent on it could be wasted.

Yes I agree. In an ideal world I would have put a 200TDi in it, but as it was/is my daily driver I had to get back on the road as quickly as possible. Things don't always work out as planned and you just have to deal with what you have and adapt.

Daz

gemsdad · Sep 27, 2009

SuperDaz said:
Yes I agree. In an ideal world I would have put a 200TDi in it, but as it was/is my daily driver I had to get back on the road as quickly as possible. Things don't always work out as planned and you just have to deal with what you have and adapt.

Daz

i understand what you are saying but how long does it take for a rebore,not long really,same day at the place near me.oh well just have to do a compression test to see whats going on and take it from there,good luck with it.

Dazz · Sep 27, 2009

gemsdad is right blue smoke when using engine braking is usually oil being drawn up passed the piston rings .

Cabbie · Sep 27, 2009

Erratic running could possibly be down to pulling air through fuel system. Check all unions and fuel filter seal. You could try advancing the injector pump timing a little. Loosen three nuts holding it to engine, loosen injector pipes at back of pump, rotate pump in very little amounts away from the engine, i.e. if you look at engine from front, rotate anti-clockwise.

jamescronin · Sep 27, 2009

Other thought when you replaced the pistons and rings, did you deglaze the bores with some very fine wet and dry, if not the shine will cause oil to slip past - other cause of erratic running could be it using a lot of oil and running on it from time to time - is it using oil?

mick110 · Sep 27, 2009

SuperDaz said:
1984 "90" 2.5 N/A diesel, 180,000miles - Erratic tickover and blue smoke!!

I don't think they are related.

It's been smoking since new pistons/skimmed head/re-ground valves etc. 2000 miles ago. I thought it should be run in by now but there is lots of proper blue smoke when you take your foot off the throttle in 1st/2nd/3rd gears especially if going downhill and using engine breaking. Any ideas?

As for the tickover, it's been idling quite fast for the last couple of weeks but today at the lights, junctions etc. it would go from fast to slow and lumpy back to fast and the slow again without me touching the throttle at all. It sort of seems to have a misfire too (is that possible with diesel?) especially when first starting up from cold. As previous, any ideas.

Daz

when you take your foot off the pistons are SUCKING ...so it could just as easily be oil passing valve seals?? what do you all think?

SuperDaz · Sep 27, 2009

jamescronin said:
Other thought when you replaced the pistons and rings, did you deglaze the bores with some very fine wet and dry, if not the shine will cause oil to slip past - other cause of erratic running could be it using a lot of oil and running on it from time to time - is it using oil?

Yes the bores were honed, and yes it uses oil but not unsurprisingly it leaks too.

Daz

SuperDaz · Sep 27, 2009

mick110 said:
when you take your foot off the pistons are SUCKING ...so it could just as easily be oil passing valve seals?? what do you all think?

Are they easy to replace?

Daz

CharlesY · Sep 27, 2009

SuperDaz said:
Are they easy to replace?

Daz

YES!
And you do NOT need to take the head off to change them.

What you can do is ONE cylinder at a time.

Try starting with No1 Cylinder. Set the crankshaft to top dead centre with pistons 1 and 4 at the top of the stroke. MARK THE CRANKSHAFT PULLY with a chalk mark that you can go back to later.

Take off the rocker cover, and get a old clean rag, and tear it to bits, using the bits of rag to plug every hole you can see that a valve collet might drop into.

Loosen all the rocker adjuster locknuts, and LOOSEN each adjuster a couple of turns.

Now take off the whole rocker shaft complete.

In some engines you do NOT need to take the rocker shaft off. It is good NOT to take it off because you can lever under it to press down the collars.

Cylinder #1 is the front one. Go for the first valve, #1 one at the front.

All you need to do is to press down on the valve-spring COLLAR and get someone with a magnet and a screwdriver to dig out the two collets.

Then lift off the collar and spring. LO! The valve stem oil seal is staring you right in the face. Replace it. Put the spring and collar back, press down and slip in two collets, and let the collar up.

One down, seven to go. Do the second valve next. Once it is done do THE LAST TWO VALVES (7 and 8) next. Number 4 piston will be UP with number one piston.

Once you have done valves 1,2 7 and 8 turn the crankshaft EXACTLY half a turn according to the chalk mark you put on. Pistons 2 and 3 will be UP.

Now do valves 3,4, 5 and 6.

Put back the rocker shaft and adjust the clearances very carefully.

REMOVE ALL THE BITS OF RAGS!

Make sure it turns over cleanly, put back the rocker cover, and fire her up.

Check the valve cleances after a couple of hundred miles.

CharlesY

SuperDaz · Sep 28, 2009

Cheers everyone, once I've sorted my propshaft out I'll try the valve seals and report back.

Daz

CharlesY · Sep 28, 2009

SuperDaz said:
Cheers everyone, once I've sorted my propshaft out I'll try the valve seals and report back.

Daz

Make a million percent sure that the right pistons are UP before you take off the collar and collets, or else a valve may drop right into the cylinder ....

CharlesY

Erratic tickover and blue smoke

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