Engine Change

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Sting14

Sting14

Member
Posts
16
Location
Wales
Hi guys not sure if this post is in the right area as I'm fairly new to this site here goes.

I just recently killed my 2.25 petrol engine on my 109 series 3. I made a very costly error which has brought forward a project I'm going to do a lot sooner than I thought.

Next year I plan on putting a 200 dti into my 109 so I'm going from petrol to diesel. Has the old girl was very thirsty and cost a fortune to run so hopefully putting a diesel into my landy I'll be able to get more miles for my money.

I'm looking for help from you experienced guys. What will I need to buy and change to run a 200 tdi in my land rover at the moment it's a petrol engine so I know a few things will need changing.

Many thanks in advance
 
Would also recommend an overdrive if you haven't got one already. Gives you a fifth gear to bring the engine speed down and make better use if the diesel's torque.
 
Sting14 said:
Hi guys not sure if this post is in the right area as I'm fairly new to this site here goes.

I just recently killed my 2.25 petrol engine on my 109 series 3. I made a very costly error which has brought forward a project I'm going to do a lot sooner than I thought.

Next year I plan on putting a 200 dti into my 109 so I'm going from petrol to diesel. Has the old girl was very thirsty and cost a fortune to run so hopefully putting a diesel into my landy I'll be able to get more miles for my money.

I'm looking for help from you experienced guys. What will I need to buy and change to run a 200 tdi in my land rover at the moment it's a petrol engine so I know a few things will need changing.

Many thanks in advance
Click to expand...

So many other nicer engines to fit in there should be inclined and you are going for a state of the arc 200Tdi?

Each to their own I s'pose :oops: :rolleyes:
 
dieseldog69 said:
So many other nicer engines to fit in there should be inclined and you are going for a state of the arc 200Tdi?
Each to their own I s'pose :oops: :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I'm open to ideas what other engines are available with out massive modifications? I'd like something that slots in fairly easy
 
Sting14 said:
I'm open to ideas what other engines are available with out massive modifications? I'd like something that slots in fairly easy
Click to expand...

That is the thing about engine swaps, especially fuel changes, nothing is a nut bolt swap.

Obviously you are just looking at easy swap which is about all you'll get with a 200Tdi.

If you were looking at a marked improvement on both performance and fuel economy then if it were me I would be looking at investing a lot more into it, Merc OM606 is a super engine, buy a whole donor vehicle and flog off what you don't need and you'll make your money back over time for the engine and box, use an LT230 divorced with an Ashcroft 2WD conversion kit and it would be amazing, the BMW M57 engine is another gem, 3ltr diesel and buy a complete donor and you can get a heck of a lot of long term bang for your buck, again, selling off what you don't need will cover the cost of the engine and box. By swapping out to the donor box you'll get a stronger and more reliable gearbox that will give you better cruising speeds, lower RPMs and ultimately much improvement on fuel economy. Be a shame to follow the heard and have the same as everyone else while you're already in there emptying the engine bay ;)

But, what's the point in swapping out to diesel if you don't mind me asking? Surely if the engine is in decent order it would be better to simply fit an LPG kit?
 
LPG is a good shout. Maybe look into an upgraded 2.25 or a 2.5 petrol from a defender. The latter will be unleaded-ready as standard which is useful if you plan to go LPG.
 
FlyingPete said:
LPG is a good shout. Maybe look into an upgraded 2.25 or a 2.5 petrol from a defender. The latter will be unleaded-ready as standard which is useful if you plan to go LPG.
Click to expand...

I would be rebuilding that 2.25 from bare block, get it rebored an +30 thou pistons, get the head done and new hardened valve seats, crank grind, make it like brand new and then fit a decent LPG kit on it, that way you get 2 things, well 3 if you include still being able to hold a conversation at 50mph LOL but you get an engine that is 100% from the get go and the economy that comes with it and the LPG will bring massive savings in fuel too.

I always fancied doing an EFi install on a 2.25 running off an MS board and running dual fuel it would be awesome.

+1 for @FlyingPete suggesting an OD, really good way to improve the drive and versatility.
 
dieseldog69 said:
That is the thing about engine swaps, especially fuel changes, nothing is a nut bolt swap.

Obviously you are just looking at easy swap which is about all you'll get with a 200Tdi.

If you were looking at a marked improvement on both performance and fuel economy then if it were me I would be looking at investing a lot more into it, Merc OM606 is a super engine, buy a whole donor vehicle and flog off what you don't need and you'll make your money back over time for the engine and box, use an LT230 divorced with an Ashcroft 2WD conversion kit and it would be amazing, the BMW M57 engine is another gem, 3ltr diesel and buy a complete donor and you can get a heck of a lot of long term bang for your buck, again, selling off what you don't need will cover the cost of the engine and box. By swapping out to the donor box you'll get a stronger and more reliable gearbox that will give you better cruising speeds, lower RPMs and ultimately much improvement on fuel economy. Be a shame to follow the heard and have the same as everyone else while you're already in there emptying the engine bay ;)

But, what's the point in swapping out to diesel if you don't mind me asking? Surely if the engine is in decent order it would be better to simply fit an LPG kit?
Click to expand...

I blew a piston, I was taking the carb off the landy to clean all the jets as I was having running issues with the fuel. I took the carb off good but I went to put the nuts back on the threaded bars. I got distracted whilst screwing the last one on I thought it fell to the floor but it actually fell down into the manifold and into the engine. Rather than trust my better judgement I thought it could never have fallen into the engine was I WRONG!!! Put everything back started the landy BANG nut embedded into piston. Nut shape hole in piston at top the underneath part of the piston was in the sump!!! Total gutter on my part being a total novice I paid the price big time. Now I got help off two great guys that can help with new transplant. When that petrol engine was running I was getting about 12 mpg how much more would I have got with LPG? A 200 tdi gives around 30 to 35 mpg which is a considerable difference.
 
Last edited:
Would expect more than 12mpg on a rebuilt petrol, especially if you upgrade to a higher compression cylinder head and electronic ignition. With LPG, actual fuel consumption is roughly the same but it's the cost difference which brings the benefit. Will always be quieter and smoother than diesel in any case- a 200TDi is a clattery old thing.

TDi engines are all getting on a bit now (at least 25 years old) and no one's quite sure what the prospects are for diesel going forward. I'd say you're definitely better off sticking with petrol, rebuilding your engine and starting with a known good engine, rather than putting an unknown TDi in.
 
If you was only getting 12mpg there was already something wrong. I get about 20mpg on a good day with my petrol109 station wagon, it's heavier than most 109s and it's still running its original 2.25 engine. The only engine mods are electronic ignition and a modern air filter. The broken piston is bad news and bad luck but I agree with dieseldog69, rebuild your existing engine. I know many on here are fans of LPG but they their fondness for it seems to blind them to the drawback. Do plenty of research before considering an LPG conversion. Keep us posted with whatever you decide.

Col
 
Colthebrummie said:
If you was only getting 12mpg there was already something wrong. I get about 20mpg on a good day with my petrol109 station wagon, it's heavier than most 109s and it's still running its original 2.25 engine. The only engine mods are electronic ignition and a modern air filter. The broken piston is bad news and bad luck but I agree with dieseldog69, rebuild your existing engine. I know many on here are fans of LPG but they their fondness for it seems to blind them to the drawback. Do plenty of research before considering an LPG conversion. Keep us posted with whatever you decide.

Col
Click to expand...
Colthebrummie said:
If you was only getting 12mpg there was already something wrong. I get about 20mpg on a good day with my petrol109 station wagon, it's heavier than most 109s and it's still running its original 2.25 engine. The only engine mods are electronic ignition and a modern air filter. The broken piston is bad news and bad luck but I agree with dieseldog69, rebuild your existing engine. I know many on here are fans of LPG but they their fondness for it seems to blind them to the drawback. Do plenty of research before considering an LPG conversion. Keep us posted with whatever you decide.

Col
Click to expand...

Thank you Col will definitely have a long hard think about which route I take
 
Colthebrummie said:
If you was only getting 12mpg there was already something wrong. I get about 20mpg on a good day with my petrol109 station wagon, it's heavier than most 109s and it's still running its original 2.25 engine. The only engine mods are electronic ignition and a modern air filter. The broken piston is bad news and bad luck but I agree with dieseldog69, rebuild your existing engine. I know many on here are fans of LPG but they their fondness for it seems to blind them to the drawback. Do plenty of research before considering an LPG conversion. Keep us posted with whatever you decide.

Col
Click to expand...
Hi Col

I probably had a very similar 109 to you Col 2.25 petrol 8.1 bearing original engine I upgraded the distributor to electronic ignition earlier this year. I found that when she was running she smelt very rich do you have the same issue of the rich smell when you drive her? I put my poor mpg down to probably running so rich.
 
Running rich will definitely give you poor fuel economy as you are chucking unburnt petrol out of the exhaust. Sounds like a good rebuild and proper carb setup will get things back on track. EFI will give better efficiency as there is tighter control of the fuel mixture, but is more work. Get the head modified for unleaded and up the compression slightly and that will help efficiency. I think the end result will be nicer to drive and a bit more civilized than a TDi. You can always convert to gas later if you decide to go that way.
 
Sting14 said:
Hi Col

I probably had a very similar 109 to you Col 2.25 petrol 8.1 bearing original engine I upgraded the distributor to electronic ignition earlier this year. I found that when she was running she smelt very rich do you have the same issue of the rich smell when you drive her? I put my poor mpg down to probably running so rich.
Click to expand...
No, mine doesn't smell or run rich but I've had to fiddle with the air mixture screw and throttle settings to get it good. I eventually took the air mixture screw out and found it was damaged on the tip, put a new one in and it's improved the slow running noticeably. Many upgrade to a Webber carb but I think the Zeniths are pretty good if they are set up ok. Also make sure the timing and valve settings are ok.

Col
 
[QUOTE=". Many upgrade to a Webber carb but I think the Zeniths are pretty good if they are set up ok. Also make sure the timing and valve settings are ok.

Col[/QUOTE]
I would not consider the Weber an upgrade. Even back in the day their only benefit was a slight increase in fuel consumption. I tried several Webers and then returned to Zeniths as they quite simply gave more power when you were working a 2.25 hard.
I would consider an SU, as I have heard good things about them but they require a bit of effort to fit.
 
Clunkbucket said:
[QUOTE=". Many upgrade to a Webber carb but I think the Zeniths are pretty good if they are set up ok. Also make sure the timing and valve settings are ok.

Col
Click to expand...
I would not consider the Weber an upgrade. Even back in the day their only benefit was a slight increase in fuel consumption. I tried several Webers and then returned to Zeniths as they quite simply gave more power when you were working a 2.25 hard.
I would consider an SU, as I have heard good things about them but they require a bit of effort to fit.[/QUOTE]
I agree entirely. I wouldn't have a Webber either but some on here rate them.

Col
 
[QUOTE="
I agree entirely. I wouldn't have a Webber either but some on here rate them.

Col[/QUOTE]

Some people like standing waist deep in extremely cold water all day hoping a fish will commit suicide on a hook on the end of their string! Takes all sorts!
 
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