EAS Problem

awillemsen · Dec 8, 2011

Got another EAS problem with my 2000 P38, and I don't know what to check next.

Symptoms are: compressor runs all the time, car never gets off bump stops, lights on EAS switch are bottom one lit and normal height one flashing, no messages on dashboard.

Here's what I've checked so far:

1) Compressor sucks and blows OK (it should do, as it's fairly new)
2) When engine and compressor are running, no air is coming out of the exhaust valve, so I guess diaphragm is OK
3) When engine is switched off, the valve block clicks and exhaust valve hisses out air for several seconds
4) Only EAS fault was "7: Vehicle has moved" - this has been cleared and has not reappeared (as expected, as car is sat on drive

)
5) I cannot hear any leaks from area of wheels or valve block, but it is a little difficult to hear in these high winds

6) I've run the car for ages, just in case tank is empty, but no change

Any ideas what to check next?

Many thanks.

Datatek · Dec 8, 2011

The lights indicate that the EAS is trying to function correctly, so, you either have a leak or the compressor is not making enough pressure. If the compressor is OK then you must have a leak. Airbags if they are old or a melted pipe or the diaphragm in the valve block but that would cause air to leak from the exhaust.

newt888 · Dec 8, 2011

Vehicle has not moved does not mean it has not moved on its wheels
It means the eas has not moved , ie it has not changed height

awillemsen · Dec 8, 2011

newt888 said:
Vehicle has not moved does not mean it has not moved on its wheels
It means the eas has not moved , ie it has not changed height

Fault was "vehicle has moved" not "vehicle has not moved".

Seven Lucky Logs · Dec 8, 2011

awillemsen said:
Got another EAS problem with my 2000 P38, and I don't know what to check next.

Symptoms are: compressor runs all the time, car never gets off bump stops, lights on EAS switch are bottom one lit and normal height one flashing, no messages on dashboard.

Here's what I've checked so far:

1) Compressor sucks and blows OK (it should do, as it's fairly new)
2) When engine and compressor are running, no air is coming out of the exhaust valve, so I guess diaphragm is OK
3) When engine is switched off, the valve block clicks and exhaust valve hisses out air for several seconds
4) Only EAS fault was "7: Vehicle has moved" - this has been cleared and has not reappeared (as expected, as car is sat on drive )
5) I cannot hear any leaks from area of wheels or valve block, but it is a little difficult to hear in these high winds
6) I've run the car for ages, just in case tank is empty, but no change

Any ideas what to check next?

Many thanks.

Did you leave the door open whilst doing this? I believe, to charge the tank, you need a door open.

awillemsen · Dec 8, 2011

Seven Lucky Logs said:
Did you leave the door open whilst doing this? I believe, to charge the tank, you need a door open.

You're right, one way to charge the tank is to leave a door open to disable the levelling, and then wait for the compressor to stop.

In my case, the compressor never stops, and shutting the door after running for ages with the door open makes no difference to the height.

awillemsen · Dec 8, 2011

Datatek said:
The lights indicate that the EAS is trying to function correctly, so, you either have a leak or the compressor is not making enough pressure. If the compressor is OK then you must have a leak. Airbags if they are old or a melted pipe or the diaphragm in the valve block but that would cause air to leak from the exhaust.

Thanks, Datatek. I think I've ruled out the compressor and the diaphragm.

Would a leaky airbag really cause all four corners to sink? My father-in-law had a Disco 2 and when an airbag went on that (I think 3 of them did in the time he had the car) it only sank on one corner.

Also, is there any way to tell if there is pressure in the system? I was thinking because air hisses out (at some rate) from the exhaust valve when the valve block is clicking after engine switch off, that there is pressure there.

Seven Lucky Logs · Dec 8, 2011

awillemsen said:
Thanks, Datatek. I think I've ruled out the compressor and the diaphragm.

Would a leaky airbag really cause all four corners to sink? My father-in-law had a Disco 2 and when an airbag went on that (I think 3 of them did in the time he had the car) it only sank on one corner.

Also, is there any way to tell if there is pressure in the system? I was thinking because air hisses out (at some rate) from the exhaust valve when the valve block is clicking after engine switch off, that there is pressure there.

I had a similar issue recently and, yes, my leak did cause all 4 corners to sink (albeit the affected corner went down first). After replacing 2 rear airbags and reconditioning the compressor, I found a small hole in the pipe 4 inches from where it entered the bag. New bit of pipe and a connector and I was sorted. I could hear a big whoosh of air from the affected corner, though.

Saint.V8 · Dec 8, 2011

awillemsen said:
Thanks, Datatek. I think I've ruled out the compressor and the diaphragm.

Would a leaky airbag really cause all four corners to sink? My father-in-law had a Disco 2 and when an airbag went on that (I think 3 of them did in the time he had the car) it only sank on one corner.

Also, is there any way to tell if there is pressure in the system? I was thinking because air hisses out (at some rate) from the exhaust valve when the valve block is clicking after engine switch off, that there is pressure there.

Yes.....

The system has a self levelling routine built into it....

Every few hours the vehicle levels itself to the lowest corner, if the lowest corner keeps leaking the vehicle will kept lowerign the other 3 corners to level itself again, until it hits the bump stops....

This leveling happens when you park the car and the gear selection is in either Park or Neutral with the Handbrake on, foot brake off, it will then slef level each time a door is opened then closed again, and then every 5-6 hours....

The clicking once ignition off is the valve block doing its initial self leveling....use soapy water sprayed from a hand spray pump on the pipe work and connections and on the airbags, and leaks will form bubbles in the soapy water.....

wammers · Dec 8, 2011

If you have checked compressor output by trying to block outlet with your finger and you CANNOT stop air from coming out. And you have also with compressor running put your finger over the exhaust port and no air is coming out. You most certainly have a large leak somewhere in the system.

Datatek · Dec 8, 2011

If it will not rise, the air must be going somewhere, self leveling really doesn't come into it at that stage of the game.

awillemsen · Dec 8, 2011

wammers said:
If you have checked compressor output by trying to block outlet with your finger and you CANNOT stop air from coming out. And you have also with compressor running put your finger over the exhaust port and no air is coming out. You most certainly have a large leak somewhere in the system.

I'm inclined to agree. The car was used in the morning (by me) and it was fine. It was then used by SWMBO for the day to go shopping - she said it "may have felt different" coming home in the middle of the afternoon. In the evening, I hopped in to go to a school performance and it never came off the bump stops. So, it went down pretty quickly. It usually stays up no problem (and the car).

awillemsen · Dec 14, 2011

Car went into local LR independent today for diagnosis. They pumped up the suspension with an air line and tried to find a leak. However, none was found, and the suspension didn't drop on any corner (verified visually and via diagnostics). The front airbags were in good condition, the back ones less so but nothing to worry about apparently.

The compressor is blowing out air, but they said it wasn't blowing it out strongly enough. I am not so sure, as it seems to be blowing out just as strong as when it was new 6 months ago.

The only symptom now is that the compressor is not sucking when it's connected up - however, when the outlet pipe is disconnected it sucks quite strongly.

The garage reckons the compressor is knackered. But they also said it might just be one of the valves. Is it possible that the compressor is blowing against some obstacle in the valve block which is preventing it from pressurizing the tank? I don't want to take the compressor apart to check the seal, as it's still under warranty.

Also, if I do get a new compressor, is it worth replacing the air dryer, exhaust silencer, and valve block O-rings to get everything in tip top shape?

Saint.V8 · Dec 14, 2011

awillemsen said:
Car went into local LR independent today for diagnosis. They pumped up the suspension with an air line and tried to find a leak. However, none was found, and the suspension didn't drop on any corner (verified visually and via diagnostics). The front airbags were in good condition, the back ones less so but nothing to worry about apparently.

The compressor is blowing out air, but they said it wasn't blowing it out strongly enough. I am not so sure, as it seems to be blowing out just as strong as when it was new 6 months ago.

The only symptom now is that the compressor is not sucking when it's connected up - however, when the outlet pipe is disconnected it sucks quite strongly.

The garage reckons the compressor is knackered. But they also said it might just be one of the valves. Is it possible that the compressor is blowing against some obstacle in the valve block which is preventing it from pressurizing the tank? I don't want to take the compressor apart to check the seal, as it's still under warranty.

Also, if I do get a new compressor, is it worth replacing the air dryer, exhaust silencer, and valve block O-rings to get everything in tip top shape?

If it's under warranty - speak to them and get it replaced.....

A quick check for faulty compressor is to unbolt from the EAS Box, disconnect the little blue air line and put your thumb over the outlet....with the compressor running you should not be able to hold your thumb against the outlet due to air pressure.....if you can then the seal/liner/internal seals are knackered...also this check won't invalidate your warranty....

wammers · Dec 14, 2011

awillemsen said:
Car went into local LR independent today for diagnosis. They pumped up the suspension with an air line and tried to find a leak. However, none was found, and the suspension didn't drop on any corner (verified visually and via diagnostics). The front airbags were in good condition, the back ones less so but nothing to worry about apparently.

The compressor is blowing out air, but they said it wasn't blowing it out strongly enough. I am not so sure, as it seems to be blowing out just as strong as when it was new 6 months ago.

The only symptom now is that the compressor is not sucking when it's connected up - however, when the outlet pipe is disconnected it sucks quite strongly.

The garage reckons the compressor is knackered. But they also said it might just be one of the valves. Is it possible that the compressor is blowing against some obstacle in the valve block which is preventing it from pressurizing the tank? I don't want to take the compressor apart to check the seal, as it's still under warranty.

Also, if I do get a new compressor, is it worth replacing the air dryer, exhaust silencer, and valve block O-rings to get everything in tip top shape?

Compressor always blows against and obstruction in the valve block it's called NRV1. If you connect a pressure gauge to the compressor outlet it should make around 175 psi very quickly indeed. Pull the violet pipe from valve block (watch out for air) with compressor running there should be air coming out of where it came from. That proves there is no obstruction.

awillemsen · Dec 14, 2011

wammers said:
Compressor always blows against and obstruction in the valve block it's called NRV1. If you connect a pressure gauge to the compressor outlet it should make around 175 psi very quickly indeed. Pull the violet pipe from valve block (watch out for air) with compressor running there should be air coming out of where it came from. That proves there is no obstruction.

I don't have a pressure guage, so I used my Ring digital air compressor (i.e. tyre inflator). Is this a valid test? If so, the pressure got to 3 psi...

I don't seem to have a violet pipe. Is this number 5 that goes to the air dryer? If so, the garage did remove this pipe at the air dryer end, and air was coming out. So, it doesn't look like there's a blockage - at least not before the air dryer.

wammers · Dec 14, 2011

awillemsen said:
I don't have a pressure guage, so I used my Ring digital air compressor (i.e. tyre inflator). Is this a valid test? If so, the pressure got to 3 psi...

I don't seem to have a violet pipe. Is this number 5 that goes to the air dryer? If so, the garage did remove this pipe at the air dryer end, and air was coming out. So, it doesn't look like there's a blockage - at least not before the air dryer.

Are you saying you fitted a pressure gauge to the compressor outlet and got 3psi. Did you not say in an earlier post that you could not stop air coming from the compressor outlet. Or am i going daft? When the air goes through the drier it has not got to the NRV1 valve. It goes from compressor past diaphragm valve out through 8mm pipe through drier, then back into block through NRV1 then via Violet coded pipe to tank. All pipes should be colour coded. R/L Red. R/R Blue. F/R Green. F/L no colour. Tank pressure feed Violet. Take the blue pipe off the compressor outlet, with compressor running no matter how hard you push your thumb onto outlet air should be forced past it. If not compressor fopared.

Saint.V8 · Dec 14, 2011

wammers said:
Are you saying you fitted a pressure gauge to the compressor outlet and got 3psi. Did you not say in an earlier post that you could not stop air coming from the compressor outlet. Or am i going daft? When the air goes through the drier it has not got to the NRV1 valve. It goes from compressor past diaphragm valve out through 8mm pipe through drier, then back into block through NRV1 then via Violet coded pipe to tank. All pipes should be colour coded. R/L Red. R/R Blue. F/R Green. F/L no colour. Tank pressure feed Violet. Take the blue pipe off the compressor outlet, with compressor running no matter how hard you push your thumb onto outlet air should be forced past it. If not compressor fopared.

Is that not what I suggested...??

wammers · Dec 14, 2011

Saint.V8 said:
Is that not what I suggested...??

Quite possibly Ant, but i believe i have also said that earlier on and the reply was that air could not be stopped. The first time i suggested that method of testing compressor long ago, i got lectures on air pressure and what it can do. Many use my testing method now though, nobody has been inflated that i know of.

Saint.V8 · Dec 14, 2011

wammers said:
Quite possibly Ant, but i believe i have also said that earlier on and the reply was that air could not be stopped. The first time i suggested that method of testing compressor long ago, i got lectures on air pressure and what it can do. Many use my testing method now though, nobody has been inflated that i know of.

Oh I see....

I would be interested in these lectures - aslong as they weren't held by the same school that teaches the air blown from the heaters changes trajectory and blows sideways, when negotiating a corner - if they were I'd get yer money back....

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