EAS (again!)

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Grrrrrr said:
:)

Don't worry. Just used the little compressor I carry around for tyres. The good news is that both air-bags checked out fine. All good and held their air.

Put both rear bags back, reinflated to extended rear height and grabbed a cup of tea to see what happens. The answer?

Both rear bags are going down, although rear right seems to be leading the action. Reckon rear right has lost an inch of height in about an hour. No noises of leaks visible from valve block. This is starting to seriously mess with my head. Why both rear?

J
Click to expand...

Something that does not leak with a couple of PSI in it may well leak with 60 PSI in it. If it's dropped an inch in an hour you would be hard pushed to hear that amount of leakage. It will just be a few bubbles in a soapy water mix. Pretty slight.
 
As Wammers said, you won't find a leak with low pressure, I welded up a frame into which I could fit the bag to test it when I had a suspect one. The frame was strong enough to allow 50 psi, dropping the lot into a bath soon showed the leak.

They other way of narrowing down a leak is to get a length of pipe and a valve and manually inflate the bag in situe, if it goes down it's the bag or the pipe entry, it it stays up it's the pipe or the valve block, you can then run your length of pipe from the bag to the block and see if it still stays up. Repeat for the other side. You may have a pin hole in the pipes to the rear bags caused by an exhaust blow.
 
Took both rear bags up to 25psi and sprayed with soapy mix. Nothing at all. Oddly enough it seems to drop faster the lower it goes, although that might just be the reserve tank running out.

The pipes seem to run along the top of the chassis under the body. Don't seem to go anywhere near the exhaust so a little unclear how it could make a pinhole? Couldn't hear any hissing either. I still find it odd that both back ones drop. Surely once the engine is off and the relay is removed they should be shut and separate. The only thing I can think of that is in common is the valve block.

I'll order some straight connectors to replace my t-ones and try inflating from just after the valve block.
 
Hi All, does anyone think it might be the little o rings on the shuttle valves? Only ask as a leak on the HP side must be audible when its up to pressure ( what is it, about 10 bar - 150 psi ?), and theres a split decision on wheather to lube these o rings or not to assist with seating? The kit I bought had some vitron o rings in it, but I'm sure I put it back together with a small wipe of lube.
 
Clear head Grrrrrr. If it's dropping an inch in an hour with everything else shut down its got to be a leak somewhere. With new airbags and the checks on them you've done I'd concentrate on the pipes and connectors, starting from the back (where the problem seems to be) and working forward up to the valve block.
Re lubing o rings;
I've done and do enough general plumbing to always lube o rings. Stops them twisting and gets them to seat properly. I know some like using silicone (as a glue for o rings) but I don't, as you're adding another layer of stuff (however miniscule), and sealant will break down before a rubber o ring, leading to leaks with air or water. Best lube for rubber o rings is fairy liquid.
 
kevwill said:
Clear head Grrrrrr. If it's dropping an inch in an hour with everything else shut down its got to be a leak somewhere. With new airbags and the checks on them you've done I'd concentrate on the pipes and connectors, starting from the back (where the problem seems to be) and working forward up to the valve block.
Re lubing o rings;
I've done and do enough general plumbing to always lube o rings. Stops them twisting and gets them to seat properly. I know some like using silicone (as a glue for o rings) but I don't, as you're adding another layer of stuff (however miniscule), and sealant will break down before a rubber o ring, leading to leaks with air or water. Best lube for rubber o rings is fairy liquid.
Click to expand...
Not silicone mastic but silicone grease is excellent for seating pipes in O rings.:)
I suggested a means of eliminating pipework leaks in post #22.
 
Last edited:
Datatek said:
Not silicone mastic but silicone grease is excellent for seating pipes in O rings.:)
I suggested a means of eliminating pipework leaks in post #22.
Click to expand...

But not on pressurised connections. On household central heating systems you should never use silicone products as it reduces grab. Central heating is hot water at only 2.5 - 3 bar. Wouldn't therefore want to use it on pressurised air systems up to 10 bar.
 
kevwill said:
But not on pressurised connections. On household central heating systems you should never use silicone products as it reduces grab. Central heating is hot water at only 2.5 - 3 bar. Wouldn't therefore want to use it on pressurised air systems up to 10 bar.
Click to expand...

Used to work on a lot of high pressure air driven systems and design the controllers, silicone grease was standard issue.
 
kevwill said:
For push fit pressurised connections???!!
Click to expand...
Yep, a light smear on the nose of the pipe, the grip is mechanical and way back from the end of the pipe. Until it dries out, Fairy liquid is just a slippery as silicone grease if not more so, so if there was any question of the pipe staying put it would apply to Fairy Liquid also.:)

My preference was to lightly grease the O rings rather than the pipe.
 
kevwill said:
But not on pressurised connections. On household central heating systems you should never use silicone products as it reduces grab. Central heating is hot water at only 2.5 - 3 bar. Wouldn't therefore want to use it on pressurised air systems up to 10 bar.
Click to expand...
You can't compare air line connectors to Hep2o, those connectors come apart over time however they are put together, there have have been least 6 re-designs to my knowledge. The French PER system is much better.:D
 
Datatek said:
You can't compare air line connectors to Hep2o, those connectors come apart over time however they are put together, there have have been least 6 re-designs to my knowledge. The French PER system is much better.:D
Click to expand...

Yep, more than 6 variants. John Guest push fit are the best (and one of the original designs) with the lock on. Used these when working on Disneyland Paris many years back.
Re silicone - was thinking specifically of the o rings used for connecting pipes in to airbags. As all silicone is made up of millions of tiny balls, I'd personally rather used a liquid based lube. If its a compression connection then silicone is fine.
 
OK chaps. Had a bit of inspiration last night (after some food and time to regroup).

I managed to get a line to each of the rear air-bags into my T-piece that goes to my emergency kit. Pumped her up to extended ride height(ish) and left overnight. DIDN'T DROP A MILLIMETER!

So, rear bags are fine. Must be further forward. All o-rings I could find in the valve-block were renewed and given a light lube with Vaseline (which brings us straight back to SaintV8 ...)

This morning I reconnected air-lines from rear into valve-block. Car back up to extended ride-height and then I switched off, ran round and disconnected the multiplug at the front of the valve-block / compressor box. I reckon that means nothing can now trigger any of those solenoids in the valve-block.

The Nanocom says the valves are shut but I assume that means there's just no power supposed to be sent to them?

I'm remembering that weird behaviour right at the start of all this when one end of the car or the other would go right up and then suddenly the whole lot would drop and level out. That makes me wonder if maybe an NRV or solenoid could be sticking.

Assuming it still drops I wonder if I can swap over 2 of the solenoids on top? If one of the front starts dropping then presumably that means it is indeed a duff solenoid?

Any thoughts welcome but I think we're starting to eliminate some ghosts and are getting closer to a solution. Or am I fooling myself?!
 
Grrrrrr said:
OK chaps. Had a bit of inspiration last night (after some food and time to regroup).

I managed to get a line to each of the rear air-bags into my T-piece that goes to my emergency kit. Pumped her up to extended ride height(ish) and left overnight. DIDN'T DROP A MILLIMETER!

So, rear bags are fine. Must be further forward. All o-rings I could find in the valve-block were renewed and given a light lube with Vaseline (which brings us straight back to SaintV8 ...)

This morning I reconnected air-lines from rear into valve-block. Car back up to extended ride-height and then I switched off, ran round and disconnected the multiplug at the front of the valve-block / compressor box. I reckon that means nothing can now trigger any of those solenoids in the valve-block.

The Nanocom says the valves are shut but I assume that means there's just no power supposed to be sent to them?

I'm remembering that weird behaviour right at the start of all this when one end of the car or the other would go right up and then suddenly the whole lot would drop and level out. That makes me wonder if maybe an NRV or solenoid could be sticking.

Assuming it still drops I wonder if I can swap over 2 of the solenoids on top? If one of the front starts dropping then presumably that means it is indeed a duff solenoid?

Any thoughts welcome but I think we're starting to eliminate some ghosts and are getting closer to a solution. Or am I fooling myself?!
Click to expand...

Sounds positive. Don't see why you can't change over solenoids as a check. Datatek and Wammers will know for sure.
 
Don't swap solenoids, as the system will think it is opening one when in effect it is opening another and will get all fecked up...

You could swap them over AND resplice the wirng to be correct, but you can't just swap them over...
 
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