E10 fuel

Hi folks, no doubt you have all seen/read that E10 petrol will be rolled out from September this year & that the increased ethanol content is not at all friendly to fuel systems components of older vehicles. There will of course be the usual difference of opinion as to what constitutes 'older' but it appears that pre.1990 has been suggested. The good news is that service stations will be obliged to retail the E5 (so they say) that we are used to, but it will only be super unleaded & therefore more expensive.
gov.uk/check-vehicle-e10-petrol informs me that my '87 RRC V8 will require the E5 variety, but our old BMW is happy with the new stuff. With my RR a second car & only covering 2K a year that's not a huge problem, but owners of high annual mileage non-compliant vehicles will not be impressed

Now if I was a cynic I might think that this news may have something to do with the continued freeze on fuel duty, give it to them with one hand & take it away with the other

High ethanol fuels are not a new thing, they have been using it state side for years, and certainly stronger than the 10% ethanol blend we will have

It will effect ancient rubber fuel lines, but nowt much else, its main gripe is it absorbs water so best not to leave the fuel standing in ya car without a stabiliser for long periods of time.

The Journos especially the chaps on Autoexpess that píss out all the bad news about the stuff know the square root of F all about cars and the effects it will have..

Pre 1997 or something, so having a car built in 1998+ somehow makes it immune to E10 ?

A load of bollox.

So using that Logic a 1994 P38 V8 wouldn't be able to use the stuff yet a 2002 P38 can?

Fuel lines are the main thing people worry about, you can buy ethanol resistant fuel line quite cheaply and re do ya classic if you have to.

which I doubt you will, rubber only has a finite life anyway, and even standard petrol isn't too kind to rubber.

Pretty much anything old enough to have a carburettor will be effected by E10, especially if used infrequently. The cause as said is due to it being hygroscopic, so the absorbed water corrodes aluminium in carburettors, if it's left to sit for longer periods of time. The same issue will also effected small engines in mowers, generators and other stuff like that. Ethanol also hardens rubber and plastic fuel lines, causing cracks and leakage.
Running wise, it's almost imperceptible, but some engines might need a slightly timing change, if that's possible.

On the whole, a regularly used vehicle will show no issues at all.

All, I know many a classic car owner in overseas countries that already use E10 and it's played havoc with much of the fuel system/s...hoses, seals, washers, carb floats, pumps, injector seals et al...these break down due to E10 and often form a rubber emulsion coating. It also plays absolute havoc where older fuel tanks have been relined and the liner is not impervious to E10. There are ways to overcome this but mid-long term use of E10 fuels is something we all need to think about. Ultimately this will mean we see/experience some form of degradation to our fuel system components and will see increased component failures/leaks/gunging up.

On my cars I've already upgraded to E10 compliant components...but it's a pain in the arse having to do so.

Interestingly Henry the Gov. website I posted advises that BMW's of any age are compatible with E10.
So either the Krauts use more resistant materials in their fuel systems, or it's yet more bollox

norseman said:

Interestingly Henry the Gov. website I posted advises that BMW's of any age are compatible with E10.
So either the Krauts use more resistant materials in their fuel systems, or it's yet more bollox

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Or they are thinking that so few old BMWs exist, that a change of fuel chemistry won't affect anyone.

Nodge68 said:

Or they are thinking that so few old BMWs exist, that a change of fuel chemistry won't affect anyone.

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vehicles (BMW or otherwise) that have outlived their expected/intended lifespan (10 years?) will not be counted in any stats they don't fit the business model

kermit_rr said:

vehicles (BMW or otherwise) that have outlived their expected/intended lifespan (10 years?) will not be counted in any stats they don't fit the business model

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That's so accurate, and so un-green too. Surely all manufacturers should be duty bound to manufacture items that have as long a life as possible, rather than building vehicles that are designed to last 10 years or less. I think it won't be long before forced consumerism is outlawed.

Nodge68 said:

That's so accurate, and so un-green too. Surely all manufacturers should be duty bound to manufacture items that have as long a life as possible, rather than building vehicles that are designed to last 10 years or less. I think it won't be long before forced consumerism is outlawed.

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we've already proven that current commerce/capitalism models out trump everything, including human life

kermit_rr said:

we've already proven that current commerce/capitalism models out trump everything, including human life

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Unfortunately this is the case. How long this can continue I'm not qualified to say. But it must be put to a stop at some point, or we'll have a planet that not capable of supporting humans, eventually.

I think one issue is where the vehicles were sold originally. They have been using bio-ethanol for years in south America and cars for export there or made there had the right seals. I know the argi and boat people are getting problems because a lot their fuel sits around before being used as its seasonal. Our local place sells the stabiliser for chainswas and outboards. I've had a lot of trouble with the diesel, its also getting bio added and all my injector pump seals went hard. It leaked like a sieve OK the seal kit was only £20 but its a pain of a job.

I remember this stuff from childhood:

Just read these comments with interest as both my old 'uns are seemingly incompatible with E10.
I over heard a conversation at work the other day that some garages will be actually selling E10 when in real life it's technically E6 but I can't remember which ones I'm currently delivering Shell who are rolling out E10 in the next week or so and it will be 10% ethanol.
I'll have to start comparing forecourt prices locally as I do qualify for a company fuel card that saves 3 ppl on standard fuel and 6 ppl on high octane but we're usually more than that compared to supermarket forecourts

What about the pump price of E10 ?
Has anyone considered that we will be having to pay the same fuel duty + vat per litre for a product that's only 90% petrol
I'm not going to chance it & will switch to super 95 for my RRC that is supposed to run 97 octane anyway. My '98 BMW is declared 'fit' for E10 by the gov. web site, but then they decline any responsibility for the advice given.

norseman said:

What about the pump price of E10 ?
Has anyone considered that we will be having to pay the same fuel duty + vat per litre for a product that's only 90% petrol
I'm not going to chance it & will switch to super 95 for my RRC that is supposed to run 97 octane anyway. My '98 BMW is declared 'fit' for E10 by the gov. web site, but then they decline any responsibility for the advice given.

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Makes no real difference to be honest running E5 vs E10 the states and many european countries have been running ethanol rich fuel for years.

For example my 1987 Daimler is considered not compatible with E10 even though the fuel pump, pipes and injectors are virtually identicle to those used in an X300 Xj which apparently is perfectly suited to the stuff?!

go figure!

I've just read it's being 'sold' as a low carbon fuel?! Really?? FFS!!!
That 5% is gonna save the world

kermit_rr said:

I've just read it's being 'sold' as a low carbon fuel?! Really?? FFS!!!
That 5% is gonna save the world

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"The low carbon fuel is being touted as able to reduce carbon emissions by up to 750,000 tonnes per year – the equivalent of removing around 350,000 cars off the UK roads."
How exactly? Replacing a small amount of petrol with the equivalent amount of ethanol, both of which are carbon based fuels. Sure, ethanol doesn't have as much carbon in it and doesn't come from dinosaurs, but still...
Someone please tell me what I'm missing

More importantly, car, HGV and Bus emissions are down 1990 - 2019 despite miles covered have significantly increased [excl' buses] - this dur to engine efficiency gains. This makes foran interesting short report

https://assets.publishing.service.g...transport-and-environment-statistics-2021.pdf

kermit_rr said:

"The low carbon fuel is being touted as able to reduce carbon emissions by up to 750,000 tonnes per year – the equivalent of removing around 350,000 cars off the UK roads."
How exactly? Replacing a small amount of petrol with the equivalent amount of ethanol, both of which are carbon based fuels. Sure, ethanol doesn't have as much carbon in it and doesn't come from dinosaurs, but still...
Someone please tell me what I'm missing

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Is it not the process of getting it to the pump is lower carbon rather than the fuel its self? Ie it doesn't have to be dragged out of the ground so much?