DSE timing chains replacement

Just finished replacing both timing chains and guides (all guides were broken). The engine runs very rough and can not sustain idle (cuts off). Here is my question: How critical is the proper timing of the valves? What happened is that I was following RAVE not too critically (hence I removed the head...but at 300k km it was probably due) and set the valve timing as per engine with more than 20k km, using the 4.6 mm filler gauge on the cam holding tool. Same for the reconditioned FIP (0.9 mm rather than 0.95 mm). Thinking a bit about it now, it seems that the 20k threshold refers to the chain stretching and we did put a new chain...So I may be a bit (2 degrees?) of the proper timing on the valves and FIP. Can this make such a big difference in the running of the engine? If yes, I will re-time. if not, I should look elsewhere...
Thanks!

FIP is certainly critical, Wammers is your man for this.

Both settings are critical. But are you sure the timing pin was located correctly? When you set DTI to zero then turn engine clockwise to engage timing pin there is a CPS pick up just before pin locating hole. If timing pin has engaged on that you would have set timing about 20 degrees out. When you think you have timing pin in you need to try and turn engine in both directions to ensure engagement. If you cannot turn it either way that is fine, if you can turn it anticlockwise ANY amount you are snagged on CPS pip. If you have fitted new chains set timing of both cam and pump as described for a new engine. Those setting allow for chain stretch. If you set new chain to stretched chain position the timing of both cam and pump will go out of tolerance as new chains stretch.

Wammers thanks, I am pretty sure we had the timing hole, and we of course test it by trying to reverse the rotation. Wouldn't budge. Still the engine, when it finally starts after plenty of cranking and a heavy foot on the pedal, runs really rough and can not sustain idling. Could this result from setting the cams and the FIP to the stretched chain location? I mean, is 0.05 mm on the pump (the difference between 0.9 and 0.95), plus the about 2 degrees error in the cams, enough to foul the engine so badly?
Thanks again for your help...

dannys said:

Wammers thanks, I am pretty sure we had the timing hole, and we of course test it by trying to reverse the rotation. Wouldn't budge. Still the engine, when it finally starts after plenty of cranking and a heavy foot on the pedal, runs really rough and can not sustain idling. Could this result from setting the cams and the FIP to the stretched chain location? I mean, is 0.05 mm on the pump (the difference between 0.9 and 0.95), plus the about 2 degrees error in the cams, enough to foul the engine so badly?
Thanks again for your help...

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Should not cause that maybe the reconditioned pump has not been set up correctly. Position of middle section is critical for setting idle fuel. If it has not been put in correct position it will never run properly. You cannot just take if off and slap it back on. Slightly undo all the bolts that hold the middle section and tap back and forth until you get a rock steady 750 RPM then torque back up. You can get the anti fiddle bolt undone by tapping a 7 mm bihex socket onto it. Unless of course you want to remove the pump and take it back where you bought it for repair. If that is the case damaging the anti fiddle bolt would maybe not be a good idea.

When you ajusted the pump were you turning it towArds the enging and when you do the retaining bolts back up you need to check the dial has not moved , its recommended you only slacken the pump bolts just enough for it to turn, also run with manifold off untill happy .

Grit Valve said:

When you ajusted the pump were you turning it towArds the enging and when you do the retaining bolts back up you need to check the dial has not moved , its recommended you only slacken the pump bolts just enough for it to turn, also run with manifold off untill happy .

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Always last turn of pump to adjust towards engine, this takes out any slack in pump internals but won't give him what he has.

wammers said:

Always last turn of pump to adjust towards engine, this takes out any slack in pump internals but won't give him what he has.

Click to expand...

I presume he's bled all the injectors pipes.

Grit Valve said:

I presume he's bled all the injectors pipes.

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If he has had the pump off, starting it at all without doing that is a little on the difficult side. Unless he has a battery the size of York minster.

Thanks guys.
Well, we did bleed the lines, adjusted properly the FIP towards the engine, and I even tried setting the middle part of the pump to no avail.
If I understand you correctly, it looks like our mis-adjustments are not that severe to cause our trouble. On Saturday we will try rotating the pump through its travel range to see if it helps and also re-check our timings. Could we have missed a tooth on the chain with the golden links? would the engine be able to run?
If this would not help, we'll put our spare pump.

As long as you had TDC locked and you used cam setting gauge cam timing will be ok. But you would maybe struggle to get pump timed within it's travel. Depending which way you were out. So i don't think that is your problem. You have of course got the injector pipes in the correct places it is possible to mix them up at the pump end if you are not careful. Firing order is 1 5 3 6 2 4. Anticlockwise looking at back of pump.

Well, going through all the possibilities it turned out to be that we had the camshaft at 180 deg off. We only find it out when I took the FIP out, having suspected its repair job. The notch in the FIP sprocket was pointing downwards...
To re-align the camshaft without removing the head again I had to rotate the engine and play with the camshaft back and forth to allow the pistons by the valves.
Engine is running as before...
But the 'misfire' is still there. I'll open another thread for that.
Thanks!