Driving without doors

Badger said:

I have, there's nothing listed to do with doors or states within the bodywork of the vehicle that doors have to be fitted.

On further google searches, 2 items came to my attention, 1 was a reply about the same question on another forum, in it a member had received an email from Vosa stating that nothing in the C&U states that doors have to be fitted, i'll leave it to you to decide on the validification of that...

The other was actually from a police forum ( special constable section ) where a member asked the same thing, from the replies given, it is a grey area, there isn't anything within the C&U specifying that doors have to be fitted, but there are other areas that could relate to it, ie, you have to have mirrors fitted and they're attached to the doors....( although we had a mod in the army that allowed the mirrors to be mounted to the bulkhead ).

construction and use regulations 1986 - PoliceSpecials.com Forum

There is no definitive answer.....

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if its so easy then just ask your insurance to confirm in writing they will cover you to drive with no doors and job done ... after all if they are happy to insure as a modified vehicle (which it is as not designed to use as such) all you then need to worry about is the CPS's view if any serious accident occurs

They will call an expert witness (in their opinion) and if your modification is deemed unsafe or contributary in their opinion you may find yourself doing time irrespective of any possible grey area as to legality or even if your insurance have said they will cover you

Imagine they call a landrover designer and ask if he feels this non approved mod was safe... whose side do you think the expert will take... the little guy or the popular option??

Do it at your peril and if all goes well no problem but if something wre to happen on your head be it.... So n so on an internet forum told me it was ok will count for nada in a defence case

Cheers Steve

ebbadger said:

if its so easy

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if what is so easy?

its a badger fest on here. Its stands to reasonable arguement that if a recce platoon landy wiv no ddors is legal then a civvi landy with no doors and no milan missiles is legal too cos the difference is the chassis?

from an engineering perspective.. do the doors contribute to the structural strength and impact strength of the vehicle.
from the insurance angle does a lack of doors imparir the drivers ability to control the vehicle, or materially effect the passengers safety in the event of an accident. i feel the latter may cause your insurance company to say no way.

ricc said:

from an engineering perspective.. do the doors contribute to the structural strength and impact strength of the vehicle.
from the insurance angle does a lack of doors imparir the drivers ability to control the vehicle, or materially effect the passengers safety in the event of an accident. i feel the latter may cause your insurance company to say no way.

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insurance companies will use any excuse to wriggle out of it, suspect theyd have a field day with a landy with no doors...:argue:

The legallity cant be disapproved so far, but I guess if it negates your insurance then technically it's illegal to drive with no valid insurance, if your insurance says oki, what law says you have to have doors on the specific models of land rover? I've seen some jeeps without doors as well, cant remember the model ( wrangler?)

Don't forget a landy is built to be driven safely without a roof off & the windscreen down, the doors don't provide any structural support to any part that I can see

Badger said:

Don't forget a landy is built to be driven safely without a roof off & the windscreen down, the doors don't provide any structural support to any part that I can see

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protect passengers feet and legs in the event of somebody side swiping you, as i said even if insurance say yep fine (get it in writing) chances are CPS would still have a field day if they could suggest it contributed in any small way to any injuries

Insurance means they are insuring a risk, it doesnt confer any legality to what you do, only means they will still cover you financially.

Not that im worried as I have a lightweight and it lives doors off all the time... but was designed that way

Cheers Steve

Cant say much about the legal in's and outs' .. but its a concept that took a while to catch on....
Landrover themselves kept faith with the idea,
and later "Built it in" to one of their subsequent models as a 'surprise automatic feature'.

All it takes to 'partake in the frivolity' is a little rain

During the summer a few years ago I used to drive my series 2a with no doors, windscreen folded down and no roof at all. I even drove from Worcester to Bournemouth and back once with it like this. I see no reason why it is illegal. You can remove panels on your vehicle as long as it doesn't make them unsafe or dangerous to use or to pedestrians.

scrappyloz said:

During the summer a few years ago I used to drive my series 2a with no doors, windscreen folded down and no roof at all. I even drove from Worcester to Bournemouth and back once with it like this. I see no reason why it is illegal. You can remove panels on your vehicle as long as it doesn't make them unsafe or dangerous to use or to pedestrians.

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Playing devils advocate here but........ your insurance said they were ok with you removing bolted on panels that protect your feet and lower legs in the event of a side swipe / coming together or was it that you were fortunate not to have an accident and have to find out??

Cheers Steve

ebbadger said:

protect passengers feet and legs in the event of somebody side swiping you, as i said even if insurance say yep fine (get it in writing) chances are CPS would still have a field day if they could suggest it contributed in any small way to any injuries

Insurance means they are insuring a risk, it doesnt confer any legality to what you do, only means they will still cover you financially.

Not that im worried as I have a lightweight and it lives doors off all the time... but was designed that way

Cheers Steve

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I see your point, but it's a legal matter for the court that you're putting across, the first post asked about the legality of driving around with no doors on his series, not the consequences if an accident happened.

It could be seen the same as a court prosecuting a rider of a motorcycle because they're pillion passenger suffered injuries in an accident, perhaps they should have not ridden the motorcycle and taken a car?

Same with the lightweight, could it not be argued that if an accident occurred, then the person in the lightweight should've been in a vehicle with doors? Would it work as the lightweight doesn't have doors? It's a military vehicle though, why are you driving one of those they might ask?

The court/CPS won't do that though as it's not ethical to say to someone ' it's your own fault, drive around in a tank, it's safer ' as they'd be hauled in front of the Human rights brigade sharpish, so they'd have to find the means to charge you with driving a vehicle that isn't legal in it's current condition

To sum up, it comes down to whether it's a legal requirement, and so far nothing has been put forward to say it is.

Badger said:

Same with the lightweight, could it not be argued that if an accident occurred, then the person in the lightweight should've been in a vehicle with doors?
Would it work as the lightweight doesn't have doors? It's a military vehicle though, why are you driving one of those they might ask?

The court/CPS won't do that though as it's not ethical to say to someone ' it's your own fault,

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as i have said time and again a lightweight is designed as such, therefore its is not 'modified' if you remove the doors

a ford focus, bmw, audi, series 2, series 3 etc etc etc have bolted doors, to remove is to modify outside the manafacturers spec / type approval process, unless a type approved military variant... and should we drive em?? well the government sold em for civvy use so doubt its illegal

there is a world of difference between getting into a vehicle used as designed (lighweight, series 1, APGP, WIMIK etc) and getting into a vehicle modified by owner

the court / cps.. please dont be offended if I laugh... one of the points the CPS pushed in a very high profile case involving a landy was 'was the owner was not a qualified and certified mechanic' and their garage expert said in his expert opinion the defendent should not therefore be allowed to change brake shoes and an alternator???... how many people on here do service their motors??

so yes the CPS will be that pathetic in an incident and what 'expert' garage owning mechanic is gonna say ... yeah dont give me business do it yourself and do you think landrover will back you up or take the crowns side?? bet i can guess

Like I said do what u will but if it all goes pear shaped take the flak

Cheers Steve

To expand a little on how I feel we should all be thinking..


Ive been welding, spannering and rebuilding motors from the ground up for 30 years but do not have a single paper qual.

I have in the past made box section lifting blocks, bobtailed 2 rangies etc etc...

following someone elses incident I would not dream of making my own lifting blocks.. it cost me a few extra quid but as far as i am concerned I bought something from an established company for a specified job.. no better than mine but if contributary in an accident in my opinion their problem for selling it

winch bumper the same... if i had an unfortunate accident and CPS state my bumper was too strong and trashed someone and their vehicle its well sorry I bought it from this company in good faith rather than Sorry the 6" RSJ I welded on chopped his car in half

I could continue but the point I am trying to get across is, use as designed, modify using parts from a company not something you have made and dont make mods that may see you in court if the worst happens.. these B**tards will screw you to the wall and saying , I thought, or so n so said, in my opinion WILL NOT WASH!!!

please assume the worst and make sure u are squeaky clean and there can be no grey area, no open to interpretation, no well i thought... the little man always loses in these cases and jail often an outcome

Cheers Steve

I hear what you're saying Steve, i agree with you on the basis of the court/CPS, if they want to make something stick, then they shall with gusto.

Removing your doors could be seen as an act of modification not set out by the manufacturer, and that could be the downfall if something went wrong, again it's on your head if it happens.

Another point i would like to add though, if the series 1 had lift off doors for removal, did the move to a bolted on pin design be part of the need for security and not for anything else?

If it could be proved that the move to a permanent fixture of the hinge pin was a security design, then do the later models come under the same rule as a series 1 whose doors were designed to be removed easily?

I can see your point but i think the only definitive authority if something happened would be to call a landrover designer and I really doubt they would favour the little guy.. could open em up to a world of claims etc, far easier for em to say... we didnt design that way so screw him..
Dont personally know many off here but would still hate to see any landy enthusiast fall foul of 'the system'

Cheers Steve

ebbadger said:

Playing devils advocate here but........ your insurance said they were ok with you removing bolted on panels that protect your feet and lower legs in the event of a side swipe / coming together or was it that you were fortunate not to have an accident and have to find out??

Cheers Steve

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Yep they said it was fine

in a similar vein wouldnt this affect almost all aftermarket mods, for example nitros?

I would think then that unbolting your door tops is also illegal or what about folding your screen down if it requires the use of a spanner
Also I would think that any none factor mod could cause you to fall foul of the law and they would come after you and not the company that sold you the part it would be up to you to sue the company and fight that legal battle your self.

What about lift kit, taller tyres that raise the bumper height higher than factory specs??
You would hit on a side impact higher up on a door/weaker spot and cause more passenger damage, If it was left at stock height you would be impacting lower on the door and and into the frame which is stronger

A lot of the questions raised are talking about vehicles that were designed and build 50/40/30/20 years ago, legislation back then was totally different to what it is nowadays, does the way a car built now effect how one that was built some years ago?

An mot is a standard thing that tells you whether your vehicle is deemed safe to drive, a legal requirement, if you turn up at the MOT station with a 4" lift kit, no doors, roof and a roll cage, is it going to fail as it doesn't conform to how a vehicle is designed and built say 5 years ago?

We could sit here for a long time going over the points, does it come down to the legal side of it all or the moral side of it?
Does common sense tell you that driving with mods on can create a dangerous vehicle in the moral sense that if you hit someone, you could kill them rather than potentially inflict injuries that are recoverable?

As FT pointed out, imagine a winch bumper with winch fitted on a 2/3/4" lift kit hitting another smaller vehicle side on, it's already proven that side swiping a ' normal ' car with a 4x4 produces a nasty result due to the chassis being higher, but does the mods create a more ' dangerous ' vehicle, and if so, who judges this, the law? the MOT station?

Or you.