Do you need traction control and ABS?

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lightning

lightning

Well-Known Member
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High Peak
When I bought my Defender I was a bit disappointed that it did not have the ABS/TC fitted....however I went to a local show recently and the car park field was really chewed up. There was about a foot of mud and cars had no chance, even 4wd ones.
I avoided the worst of it but when we came to leave the exit was blocked by a truck that had bogged down. My wife was driving and we had to go right across the worst of the mud...her off road experience totalled a half day Land Rover Experience course that we did.
Anyway she put it into low range and engaged the diff lock, then put it in second gear and off we went. A bit of wheelspin followed but she did really well, the Defender just ploughed through the mud, past the stuck Range Rover Sport, the Audi 4x4 and various other cars that were waiting for the tractor to tow them.
Big respect due to the Defender (and the wife!) she just said "that's how I was told to do it on the LR day".
The Defender must be pretty much unstoppable if the traction control makes it better than ours.
 
:D nice one!

I wouldn't of said TC and ABS is that much to rave about to be honest, not when you aren't cornering at 80mph (which I hope you're not in a defender!) It all boils down to common sense and experience, and it looks like your mrs did well!!
 
ABS should be on all cars, and it should come on automatically. Great for road use in emergencies. Don't think, just mash the pedal.

However. You should be able to turn it off, because it (in my experience) isn't sensitive enough to beat a reasonably good driver in tricky conditions. It was only luck that got me down a 1 in 5 hill covered in black ice in my Alfa. I really wanted to turn it off, but couldn't.

Traction control (if perfect) would help a defender without locking axle diffs (most of us), but we have two wheel drive at worst, so it's not such a huge improvement that a one wheel drive car would enjoy.
 
I bought my 90xs because it had all the bits and bobs. While i consider myself a good driver, when braking i do not have four brake pedals or four throttles when accelerating. My Griff has nothing, in bad conditions what do i drive ?
 
All Defenders, in fact all Land Rovers (I'm talking traditional LR) since 1948, are brilliant off road, with no electronics to help them. TC can make them even better, especially on difficult services like wet grass and ice.
I have climbed out of a steep hill with one rut solid ice, so without TC both wheels on one side would be spinning, and it wouldn't have moved.
 
I do think ABS might be useful, but I'm told that in snow/loose surfaces you may be better off without it? If I try an emergency stop in the wet on the road in the Defender, one of the back wheels always locks up and the car tends to skid. However in 2 1/2 years and 15,000 miles neither of us have actually had to do this.
 
You can fool your diffs into thinking they have grip by applying the brakes slightly. A crude but effective traction control. Try it next time you're up to your arse in mud, it works.
 
hughesy said:
You can fool your diffs into thinking they have grip by applying the brakes slightly. A crude but effective traction control. Try it next time you're up to your arse in mud, it works.
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I'm with hughsey on this. Applying brakes can help significantly. Pulling up the handbrake halfway on a rear wheel drive vehicles works really well to get you moving on mud and ice too.
 
ratty said:
I'm with hughsey on this. Applying brakes can help significantly. Pulling up the handbrake halfway on a rear wheel drive vehicles works really well to get you moving on mud and ice too.
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Ah'm with Ratty and Hughsey on this, driver input has always got to be best.

Ah've said it before an I'll say it agen. You can have all the electrical wizardry known to man an all the best orft road extras but it WILL NOT make you a better driver, stop you gettin stuck or prevent a serious accident.

It is my humble opinion that all the hi tech wizardry does is make crap drivers think they're better than they are. :boink:
 
If you think you can react quicker than the ABS/TC can, and apply the brakes to individual wheels, you're deluded.
I can accept that the feeling of the brakes not applying on ice is worse (just) than the feeling of helplessness when they are all locked up and sliding, but you (or the vehicle) are more likely to recover from it.
 
Davec said:
If you think you can react quicker than the ABS/TC can, and apply the brakes to individual wheels, you're deluded.
I can accept that the feeling of the brakes not applying on ice is worse (just) than the feeling of helplessness when they are all locked up and sliding, but you (or the vehicle) are more likely to recover from it.
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Correct, no one can react quicker. But.

My point was, that all the hi tech wizardry does, is make crap drivers think they're better than they are.

:fencing:
 
Davec said:
If you think you can react quicker than the ABS/TC can, and apply the brakes to individual wheels, you're deluded.
I can accept that the feeling of the brakes not applying on ice is worse (just) than the feeling of helplessness when they are all locked up and sliding, but you (or the vehicle) are more likely to recover from it.
Click to expand...

It's amazing how many vehicles with ABS that I go out to that have failed to stop on muddy or icey roads and collided with another car or a brick wall or similar. The same thing spouts from the drivers mouths everytime.

'my cars got ABS. It should have stopped. It must be faulty'

I'll take experience over electronics everytime.
 
ratty said:
'my cars got ABS. It should have stopped. It must be faulty'

I'll take experience over electronics everytime.
Click to expand...

Exackerly ABS/TC doesn't stop eejits drivin too fast for the road conditions.

If anythin it makes it worse cos the're thinkin is O.K. cos I've got ABS/TC to get me outta trouble


:rolly: :doh:
 
I remember the same argument when manufactures started fitting disc brakes and servos, are you suggesteing we go back no no-assisted drums, because discs encourage people to drive faster?
 
Davec said:
are you suggesteing we go back no no-assisted drums, because discs encourage people to drive faster?
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No.

I'm suggesting that with all the added benefits of assisted braking and TC etc, has had the effect that some eejits albeit a minority drive too fast for the conditions.

Actually thinking about it ah'm not sure its a minority. :frusty:
 
Dont matter what gizmos you have on your motor.
You have no more grip with ABS or traction control than someone who does not have them.
ABS will allow you to steer (limited) the vehicle whilst hard on the brakes but it is still dependent on how much grip or friction between the tyres and the road surface is available.
Traction control may get you moving where the same vehicle without it would not but as already stated you can roughly emulate what TC does by using the brakes or tranmission brake. Granted it has more sophisticated control over what brakes are applied to each wheel but it was initially a gimmick for drivers of high powered sports cars with lead feet because they could not balance the clutch and accelerator pedals.
 
Davec said:
I remember the same argument when manufactures started fitting disc brakes and servos, are you suggesteing we go back no no-assisted drums, because discs encourage people to drive faster?
Click to expand...

It's funny you should say that.......

In my job I cannot afford to have brake failure. I need to know that my brakes are locked on solid and that my vehicle will not budge. For that reason I have a vehicle with DRUMS all round.

I drive the oldest truck on the fleet through choice. It will out perform any of the new trucks on the fleet. It has drum brakes all round and has a straight 6 cylinder N/A engine. It will outrun, out brake, out winch, out manouvre, and out carry any equivelent truck on the fleet. (the fleet is 80 strong). It will also wade deeper, is better off road, breaksdown less and just to add insult to injury will carry it's equivelent vehicles when they breakdown. The new trucks normally breakdown and get towed in about once a month. My trucks (of which there have been 2) have been towed in only once (between them) in 11 years. My first truck had 900,000 on it when I moved out of it, my current one has only around 500,000.

Disc brakes are great for stopping power but are far more likely to throw pads, crack discs and fail to hold on hills than drums.
 
ratty said:
It's funny you should say that.......

In my job I cannot afford to have brake failure. I need to know that my brakes are locked on solid and that my vehicle will not budge. For that reason I have a vehicle with DRUMS all round.

I drive the oldest truck on the fleet through choice. It will out perform any of the new trucks on the fleet. It has drum brakes all round and has a straight 6 cylinder N/A engine. It will outrun, out brake, out winch, out manouvre, and out carry any equivelent truck on the fleet. (the fleet is 80 strong). It will also wade deeper, is better off road, breaksdown less and just to add insult to injury will carry it's equivelent vehicles when they breakdown. The new trucks normally breakdown and get towed in about once a month. My trucks (of which there have been 2) have been towed in only once (between them) in 11 years. My first truck had 900,000 on it when I moved out of it, my current one has only around 500,000.

Disc brakes are great for stopping power but are far more likely to throw pads, crack discs and fail to hold on hills than drums.[/quote]

Not sure I totally agree, although well maintained drums are a lot better than many give credit for.
As for drums holding better on hills, that's why all Land Rovers have drum handbrakes.
Click to expand...
 
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