Disco has no "umph" and clutch problem!?!?

Hi guys, new to this so be patient!

I've had my disco for a month now and it has no power. It drives fine when you get it to 3000 rpm, anything below that its very sluggish!! I took my trailer test last week and was towing an empty horsebox (not a horsey girl) and it was absolutely useless.

Also my clutch is becoming a problem, recently had a new clutch fitted. Clutch has always been very low and light, Ive had a clutch pipe replaced as it was leaking, this was done 4 days ago and everyday since ive had to have it bled, each time the clutch has been perfect, but the more i use it the lower it goes and the lighter it goes. i cant get it in gear when the clutch is low, can only do this if i turn engine off!!

Please help, this is meant to be my dream car and well its useless!!

I think you've answered your own question. Your clutch appears to be knackered. have you checked the clutch fluid leve?? if it's fine then you need a new clutch. if the level is down then topup and check daily if the level drops then you have a leaking master or slave clutch cylinder

Well.....It's had a new clutch, its only done 2000miles since then. I had a pipe chafe through causing a leak, had that sorted, yet clutch no different. I've just had the master cylinder done aswell clutch pedal is alot "stiffer" yet the biting point is still so so low.
Is it possible that the clutch arm has been put in the wrong way? I hear it's a bit of a problem on the TD5's??

To be honest I'd take it back to where you got the clutch done and just get them to fix it .. merchantable quality and all that. And if they try to charge you stick to your rights and get it done to your satisfaction.

farmer gal said:

Well.....It's had a new clutch, its only done 2000miles since then. I had a pipe chafe through causing a leak, had that sorted, yet clutch no different. I've just had the master cylinder done aswell clutch pedal is alot "stiffer" yet the biting point is still so so low.
Is it possible that the clutch arm has been put in the wrong way? I hear it's a bit of a problem on the TD5's??

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Hi Farmer Gal, first of all there is no TD5 problem associated with the clutch fork, that only relates to TDi 200/300 - the clutch fork on the TD5 is much stronger.

Sounds to me like you need to bleed the clutch hydraulic system. I know you say you've done it, but can I suggest you try the following:

1. You will need a supply of fresh clutch fluid, a suitable ring spanner to open and close the slave cylinder bleed nipple, a length of clear polastic pipe long enough to go from the bleed nipple to a jamjar half full of old clutch fluid resting on the ground underneath the slave cylinder and a reliable assistant;

2. Crack off the bleed nipple but do not undo, place the plastic pipe on the bleed nipple with the other end in the jamjar below the level of fluid. Ensure the clutch master cylinder is full of fluid;

3. You are now ready to start bleeding. Get your assistant to press the clutch pedal down to the floor and hold it there;

4. You open the bleed nipple and watch the fluid flow - there will almost certainly be bubbles in it. After 5 secs close the nipple, tell your assistant to release the pedal and check the master cylinder fluid level - top up as neccesary.

5. Do this whole cycle 5 or 6 times until the clutch pedal starts to feel like it has normal weight in it again from the top, when it does, you're done.

Good luck

Dave

Hi Farmer Gal, have you driven a Disco before , especially with a horse trailer on the back. I do it alot and I can tell you that a std TD5 does not have that much go, when towing below about 2500rpm.

If you want more umph, here are the popular mods to improve perf:

1. De-EGR - there is a part of the engine called an EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) valve which was designed to help with pollution but doesn't. It needs removing if not already done. Kits costs about £25

EGR Blanking Kit - all TD5

This will NOT adversely avec the mot.

2. De-Catt - this is the second mod to remove the cat in the exhaust downpipe and allow the engine to breath better. As yours is a '99 it probably doesn't have a cat so a quick check to confirm and you're done;

3. K&N filter - this is contraveral but I find they work well, help with performance and mpg.

4. Engine ECU remap - this is the kiddy that changes everything, costs about £250 but turns a sluggish Disco into a vehicle that nips along very nicely and helps a lot when towing.

All of the above assumes the vehicle is well serviced with new filters. If not, replace the airfilter straight away.

Cheers
Dave

farmer gal said:

I've just had the master cylinder done aswell clutch pedal is alot "stiffer" yet the biting point is still so so low.

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I just changed my master cylinder and it was exactly the same as that.
After bleeding properly that dissapeared and the pedal/clutch is now great.

Del.

Forgot to say, get the front of the car as high up as you can when bleeding, as air gets trapped below the slave bleed nipple.

Del.

( Oh, and make sure your assistant is pressing the clutch pedal and not the brake !! ) ( I told my brother it was the clutch. Doghnut !! ).

Thanks for your reply's. have had master cylinder done, clutch was ok until just now on my way from work when i couldnt get the dam thing in gear at all!!! Great!!!!!! dont worry it will be going straight back to the garage 2morow morning. spend some more money! yey!!!

thebiglad said:

4. You open the bleed nipple and watch the fluid flow - there will almost certainly be bubbles in it. After 5 secs close the nipple, tell your assistant to release the pedal and check the master cylinder fluid level - top up as neccesary.

Dave

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Don't know about the Td5 but you can't sucessfully bleed the clutch slave cylinder in this way on a Disco 1. Doing it manually (ie pumping pedal) you just can't get the air out.

The only way is to use a pressure bleeder (eg Gunsons easibleed), I struggled for hours the first time I did mine. I've an idea the Haynes book tells you to use a pressure bleeder too.

As for the lack of power, The engine should be very torquey from about 1500rpm up, so if its not doing anything until you get to 3000revs then something is wrong. Don't start messing about with EGR blanking and ECU remaps until you've got to the bottom of whats really wrong. Your probably cheaper in the long run to take it to a good diesel injection specialist, and have them give it the once over. I'd disagree with the other poster, amongst rural communities these Td5's are very well regarded for their towing abilities.

landy.man said:

Don't know about the Td5 but you can't sucessfully bleed the clutch slave cylinder in this way on a Disco 1. Doing it manually (ie pumping pedal) you just can't get the air out.

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Don't want to start a row, but I've done this approach on numerous TDi 200's, 300's and TD5's and it has worked exactly as I've described every time.

Can see there is anymore for me to say on this subject?

biglads method has always worked for me too.

landy.man said:

Don't know about the Td5 ....................

As for the lack of power, The engine should be very torquey from about 1500rpm up, so if its not doing anything until you get to 3000revs then something is wrong. Don't start messing about with EGR blanking and ECU remaps until you've got to the bottom of whats really wrong. Your probably cheaper in the long run to take it to a good diesel injection specialist, and have them give it the once over. I'd disagree with the other poster, amongst rural communities these Td5's are very well regarded for their towing abilities.

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TD5 is a common-rail engine and as such (in std trim) produces it's power higher up the rev range than a TDi motor. Without tuning, there is an acknowledged hole in torque delivery below about 2200rpm. Above that it gets progressively better.

I agree entirely that before doing any mods on the engine it should first be established that it is running correctly. However, as it is an electronically controlled unit, the first port of call I would reccomend is a diagnostic session using Nanocom or similar, checking live data from sensors like the MAF/MAP/turbo wastegate etc etc.

Once a baseline of correct std running has been established and the first 2 mods have been applied, the remap can be structured to produce more 'lugging' power lower down the rev range.

Yesterday I was driving a modified manual gearbox TD5 and even though it was running on much bigger wheels, therefore affecting it's gearing, it still pulled remarkably well below 2000rpm, due to it's remap.

Tuning the more modern engines requires a shift in thinking, from the mechanical to the electronic approaches, that some are unwilling to make.

thebiglad said:

...... the remap can be structured .......

.

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This is one ting I know too little......but I'm willing to learn, can this remap be done via OBD connector or U have to plug in directly to ECU / maybe even intrude in it ?
Could U remap the ECU through a normal testbook or it needs some special device?

Eventually lead me to a site or thread where it's well explained to not bother U too much.:boom:I've been searching for good and clear threads about this but without succes.

A bientot

sierrafery said:

This is one ting I know too little......but I'm willing to learn, can this remap be done via OBD connector or U have to plug in directly to ECU / maybe even intrude in it ?
Could U remap the ECU through a normal testbook or it needs some special device?

Eventually lead me to a site or thread where it's well explained to not bother U too much.:boom:I've been searching for good and clear threads about this but without succes.

A bientot

Click to expand...

Hi SF, as you probably know the "map" in an ECU is the simple name for the collection of parameters used to govern the engines performance under various different conditions.

The ECU recieves inputs from various sensors such as coolant temp, MAF & MAP, crank sensor and compares them with the map to control fuelling.

The car manufacturer has to take into account quality of fuels, legislative requirements and conditions around the world. The remappers don't so they can optimise the peformance and tailor-make the map to user requirements.

In relation to TD5 the single most requested improvement is low speed power improvements ie power and torque delivery between 1700 and 3000rpm. Improve this and the car feels completely different and much more driveable.

Dynachip profesional ecu remapping

Disco2-Diesel | Discovery Series II

Alive Tuning - Land Rover Performance Tuning - Defender, Discovery, Freelander, Range Rover, TDi, TD4, TD5, TD6, TDV6, and TDV8

Hope that helps

Dave

thebiglad said:

TD5 is a common-rail engine and as such (in std trim) produces it's power higher up the rev range than a TDi motor. Without tuning, there is an acknowledged hole in torque delivery below about 2200rpm. Above that it gets progressively better.

Click to expand...

Common rail is totally different, the Td5 uses Electronic Unit Injectors (EUI). FWIW most modern diesels are generally able to produce better low down torque through the use of variable jet turbos, although I don't know if the td5 uses such a device.

I find my TD5 has far better torque below 2000 than the Tdi's. I'm sure its in standard form.

As for the clutch, maybe mine was a tricky car, but we mucked about for ages by hand, and still it was crap. Brand new master cylinder too. Pressure bleeding had it sorted in minutes. As I say, Haynes recommend this method too.

landy.man said:

Common rail is totally different, the Td5 uses Electronic Unit Injectors (EUI). FWIW most modern diesels are generally able to produce better low down torque through the use of variable jet turbos, although I don't know if the td5 uses such a device.

I find my TD5 has far better torque below 2000 than the Tdi's. I'm sure its in standard form.

As for the clutch, maybe mine was a tricky car, but we mucked about for ages by hand, and still it was crap. Brand new master cylinder too. Pressure bleeding had it sorted in minutes. As I say, Haynes recommend this method too.

Click to expand...

I would maintain that TD5 IS a common rail engine. It has a single (common) high pressure fuel rail, terminating in, as you quite correctly state, direct injection EUI's as all common rail engines do - how else would they get the fuel in?

Incidently, the modern turbos you refer to are "Variable Vane" turbo's and are expensive and sophisticatedto produce, so only fitted to more upmarket versions.