DIFFLOCKS

Ok i asked once before about series difflocks and learnt about ARB Air
Lockers.
With compressor and a price tag of just under a grand for the 2 axles.(seems
a little excessive)

But i keep hearing snippets about other kinds and wanted to find the
difinitive info from u guys..


Do salisbury axles have some kind of difflocks? Or are they just a better
design.

I read about a series rear axle with a partial difflock built in but it
never said what it was called.

What are the other Types available to a S111 88 owner trying to get his
vehicle ready for some expeditions abroad.

Im not talking Jungle treks , but moderate terrain , mainly sand and
riverbeds is why i will need the difflocks.
But i just dont want to buy a defender, i really want to stick with my s3 88
(hehe i may well be mad).

Ok i got to get winches and a snorkel and various other bits before i can go
but the vehicle is slowly getting there.

Check out my link if anyone wants to see how the vehicle is atm and offer
advice on what else i will need to do to it will be much appreciated.
Im gonna put some 235/85/16 on it for a bigger footprint in the sandy
terrain. As my 205 /16 just stop me dead soon as i hit sand atm.
So any info i can gather will of great help.. thanx guys ...



--
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jason.hall8/Sites.html

Jason Hall wrote:

> Ok i asked once before about series difflocks and learnt about ARB Air
> Lockers.
> With compressor and a price tag of just under a grand for the 2 axles.(seems
> a little excessive)

Putting an ARB locker in a Rover rear diff is like sticking your private
parts into a mincer - it's only going to give you untold grief - the
Rover half shafts are just not up to it.
>
> Do salisbury axles have some kind of difflocks? Or are they just a better
> design.

ARB do a locker for the salisbury diff - it works quite well as the
whole setup is almost indestructible.
>
> I read about a series rear axle with a partial difflock built in but it
> never said what it was called.

You prabably want a lockrite. I've found they are best in the front
diff - in 2WD with the FWH disengaged they do absolutely nothing, but in
the slippery stuff they are pretty good. The problem with fitting them
to the rear is that they rattle when cornering and cause understeer in
the wet.
>
> What are the other Types available to a S111 88 owner trying to get his
> vehicle ready for some expeditions abroad.
>
> Im not talking Jungle treks , but moderate terrain , mainly sand and
> riverbeds is why i will need the difflocks.
> But i just dont want to buy a defender, i really want to stick with my s3 88
> (hehe i may well be mad).

A Defender with a centre diff lock is no better than a series in 4x4.
>
> Ok i got to get winches and a snorkel and various other bits before i can go
> but the vehicle is slowly getting there.
>
> Check out my link if anyone wants to see how the vehicle is atm and offer
> advice on what else i will need to do to it will be much appreciated.
> Im gonna put some 235/85/16 on it for a bigger footprint in the sandy
> terrain. As my 205 /16 just stop me dead soon as i hit sand atm.
> So any info i can gather will of great help.. thanx guys ...

Even 235/85's are a bit narrow for sand. I'd be looking at some
31/10.5R15's with the pressure dropped to about 15psi for sand work
(less if you run tubes in them). That setup works well for me.


--
EMB
change two to number to reply

What makes you say that? I thought defenders couldnt get crossaxled?




> A Defender with a centre diff lock is no better than a series in 4x4.
> >

Jason Hall wrote:

> What makes you say that? I thought defenders couldnt get crossaxled?

They have better suspension travel before they get cross axled, but they
cross axle just as well as a Series (or a Lada Niva)

--
EMB
change two to number to reply

Jason Hall wrote:

> Ok i asked once before about series difflocks and learnt about ARB Air
> Lockers.
> With compressor and a price tag of just under a grand for the 2
> axles.(seems a little excessive)
>
> But i keep hearing snippets about other kinds and wanted to find the
> difinitive info from u guys..
>
>
> Do salisbury axles have some kind of difflocks? Or are they just a better
> design.
>
> I read about a series rear axle with a partial difflock built in but it
> never said what it was called.
>
> What are the other Types available to a S111 88 owner trying to get his
> vehicle ready for some expeditions abroad.
>
> Im not talking Jungle treks , but moderate terrain , mainly sand and
> riverbeds is why i will need the difflocks.
> But i just dont want to buy a defender, i really want to stick with my s3
> 88 (hehe i may well be mad).
>
> Ok i got to get winches and a snorkel and various other bits before i can
> go but the vehicle is slowly getting there.
>
> Check out my link if anyone wants to see how the vehicle is atm and offer
> advice on what else i will need to do to it will be much appreciated.
> Im gonna put some 235/85/16 on it for a bigger footprint in the sandy
> terrain. As my 205 /16 just stop me dead soon as i hit sand atm.
> So any info i can gather will of great help.. thanx guys ...
>
>
>
> --
> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jason.hall8/Sites.html

As others have indicated, a diff lock with a Rover diff is not recommended -
the axles will break.

If your major concern is sand, then a diff lock is fairly low on the list of
requirements. The major factors in progressing through sand are driving
technique and tyre pressure. The main advantage of wide tyres is the
ability to use lower pressures safely, and for this reason low profile
tyres should be avoided. Also, apart from pressure, the tyres that work
best will be the ones with the largest diameter and smoothest tread.

(speaking from two years in the Simpson Desert)
JD

Who sells Lockrites i cant find any uk places ..

EMB <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Jason Hall wrote:
>
> > What makes you say that? I thought defenders couldnt get crossaxled?
>
> They have better suspension travel before they get cross axled, but they
> cross axle just as well as a Series (or a Lada Niva)

Coil sprung LRs with their softer, long travel suspension will dig a
wheel quicker and deeper into sand when you get stuck compared with a
leaf sprung LR. It will of course be more comfortable while doing so!
All we ever used in my time in desert seismic exploration (Libya,
Egypt, Oman) were standard 109 LRs with standard wheels and Michelin
7.50x16 XS tyres (with tubes). The XS is a very good sand tyre, will
run at low psi and has very flexible side walls. Great for flotation
over sand, but not good in mud or rocky ground because of the
relatively weak side walls. Forget about diff locks etc, they're just
more to go wrong in the middle of nowhere, and if you DO need them on
your trip you shouldn't be going alone. A second vehicle with a good
rope is always the quickest way of getting unstuck.

Gordon

In article <[email protected]>, EMB wrote:
> Jason Hall wrote:
>
>> What makes you say that? I thought defenders couldnt get crossaxled?
>
> They have better suspension travel before they get cross axled, but they
> cross axle just as well as a Series (or a Lada Niva)
>

What you want is a new Rangie

They were doing demo drives at Billing and you could see part of the
course they were using. There was a section where they deliberately
cross axled it so they could show off thet traction control (or whatever
it has).

Very impressive!

--
simon at sbarr dot demon dot co dot uk
Simon Barr.
'97 110 300Tdi.

Jason Hall wrote:

> Ok i asked once before about series difflocks and learnt about ARB Air
> Lockers.
> With compressor and a price tag of just under a grand for the 2 axles.(seems
> a little excessive)

Putting an ARB locker in a Rover rear diff is like sticking your private
parts into a mincer - it's only going to give you untold grief - the
Rover half shafts are just not up to it.
>
> Do salisbury axles have some kind of difflocks? Or are they just a better
> design.

ARB do a locker for the salisbury diff - it works quite well as the
whole setup is almost indestructible.
>
> I read about a series rear axle with a partial difflock built in but it
> never said what it was called.

You prabably want a lockrite. I've found they are best in the front
diff - in 2WD with the FWH disengaged they do absolutely nothing, but in
the slippery stuff they are pretty good. The problem with fitting them
to the rear is that they rattle when cornering and cause understeer in
the wet.
>
> What are the other Types available to a S111 88 owner trying to get his
> vehicle ready for some expeditions abroad.
>
> Im not talking Jungle treks , but moderate terrain , mainly sand and
> riverbeds is why i will need the difflocks.
> But i just dont want to buy a defender, i really want to stick with my s3 88
> (hehe i may well be mad).

A Defender with a centre diff lock is no better than a series in 4x4.
>
> Ok i got to get winches and a snorkel and various other bits before i can go
> but the vehicle is slowly getting there.
>
> Check out my link if anyone wants to see how the vehicle is atm and offer
> advice on what else i will need to do to it will be much appreciated.
> Im gonna put some 235/85/16 on it for a bigger footprint in the sandy
> terrain. As my 205 /16 just stop me dead soon as i hit sand atm.
> So any info i can gather will of great help.. thanx guys ...

Even 235/85's are a bit narrow for sand. I'd be looking at some
31/10.5R15's with the pressure dropped to about 15psi for sand work
(less if you run tubes in them). That setup works well for me.


--
EMB
change two to number to reply

So if it is the change in angle of the props then how do i cure it ?

Jason Hall wrote:
> So if it is the change in angle of the props then how do i cure it ?
>
>
New UJ's may do it - there may be a groove worn inside the old ones at
the angle they used to run. Failing that wedges under the diff housing
(check that the caster angle remains within spec) or a double cardan
front prop-shaft.

--
EMB
change two to number to reply

EMB wrote:
> Jason Hall wrote:
>
>> So if it is the change in angle of the props then how do i cure it ?
>>
>>
> New UJ's may do it - there may be a groove worn inside the old ones at
> the angle they used to run. Failing that wedges under the diff housing
> (check that the caster angle remains within spec) or a double cardan
> front prop-shaft.
>

Or as my wife pointed out, "rolling" the diff can be very effective.

Steve

Steve Taylor wrote:
> EMB wrote:

>> New UJ's may do it - there may be a groove worn inside the old ones at
>> the angle they used to run. Failing that wedges under the diff
>> housing (check that the caster angle remains within spec) or a double
>> cardan front prop-shaft.
>>
>
> Or as my wife pointed out, "rolling" the diff can be very effective.
>
ie. wedges under the housing (if leaf sprung, or new radius arms if coil
sprung) but you need to keep an eye on what you've done to the caster
angle or they steer really badly.


--
EMB
change two to number to reply

Have you looked at Maxidrive? I have rover diffs with Maxidrive lockers and
axles works fine. To quote the site
"A locked diff can transmit much more torque into an axle and for this
reason All front and rear 'Rover' type diff and Salisbury diff kits include
new axles. These axles are made from aviation quality nickel chrome
manganese steel - AMS6418 (HYTUF). "

http://www.4wdworld.com.au/products/maxidrive/

"Jason Hall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:%[email protected]...
> Ok i asked once before about series difflocks and learnt about ARB Air
> Lockers.
> With compressor and a price tag of just under a grand for the 2
axles.(seems
> a little excessive)
>
> But i keep hearing snippets about other kinds and wanted to find the
> difinitive info from u guys..
>
>
> Do salisbury axles have some kind of difflocks? Or are they just a better
> design.
>
> I read about a series rear axle with a partial difflock built in but it
> never said what it was called.
>
> What are the other Types available to a S111 88 owner trying to get his
> vehicle ready for some expeditions abroad.
>
> Im not talking Jungle treks , but moderate terrain , mainly sand and
> riverbeds is why i will need the difflocks.
> But i just dont want to buy a defender, i really want to stick with my s3
88
> (hehe i may well be mad).
>
> Ok i got to get winches and a snorkel and various other bits before i can
go
> but the vehicle is slowly getting there.
>
> Check out my link if anyone wants to see how the vehicle is atm and offer
> advice on what else i will need to do to it will be much appreciated.
> Im gonna put some 235/85/16 on it for a bigger footprint in the sandy
> terrain. As my 205 /16 just stop me dead soon as i hit sand atm.
> So any info i can gather will of great help.. thanx guys ...
>
>
>
> --
> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jason.hall8/Sites.html
>
>

Jason Hall wrote:

> Ok i asked once before about series difflocks and learnt about ARB Air
> Lockers.
> With compressor and a price tag of just under a grand for the 2
> axles.(seems a little excessive)
>
> But i keep hearing snippets about other kinds and wanted to find the
> difinitive info from u guys..
>
>
> Do salisbury axles have some kind of difflocks? Or are they just a better
> design.
>
> I read about a series rear axle with a partial difflock built in but it
> never said what it was called.
>
> What are the other Types available to a S111 88 owner trying to get his
> vehicle ready for some expeditions abroad.
>
> Im not talking Jungle treks , but moderate terrain , mainly sand and
> riverbeds is why i will need the difflocks.
> But i just dont want to buy a defender, i really want to stick with my s3
> 88 (hehe i may well be mad).
>
> Ok i got to get winches and a snorkel and various other bits before i can
> go but the vehicle is slowly getting there.
>
> Check out my link if anyone wants to see how the vehicle is atm and offer
> advice on what else i will need to do to it will be much appreciated.
> Im gonna put some 235/85/16 on it for a bigger footprint in the sandy
> terrain. As my 205 /16 just stop me dead soon as i hit sand atm.
> So any info i can gather will of great help.. thanx guys ...
>
>
>
> --
> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jason.hall8/Sites.html

As others have indicated, a diff lock with a Rover diff is not recommended -
the axles will break.

If your major concern is sand, then a diff lock is fairly low on the list of
requirements. The major factors in progressing through sand are driving
technique and tyre pressure. The main advantage of wide tyres is the
ability to use lower pressures safely, and for this reason low profile
tyres should be avoided. Also, apart from pressure, the tyres that work
best will be the ones with the largest diameter and smoothest tread.

(speaking from two years in the Simpson Desert)
JD

Gordon <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> EMB <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > Jason Hall wrote:
> >
> > > What makes you say that? I thought defenders couldnt get crossaxled?
> >
> > They have better suspension travel before they get cross axled, but they
> > cross axle just as well as a Series (or a Lada Niva)
>
> Coil sprung LRs with their softer, long travel suspension will dig a
> wheel quicker and deeper into sand when you get stuck compared with a
> leaf sprung LR. It will of course be more comfortable while doing so!
> All we ever used in my time in desert seismic exploration (Libya,
> Egypt, Oman) were standard 109 LRs with standard wheels and Michelin
> 7.50x16 XS tyres (with tubes). The XS is a very good sand tyre, will
> run at low psi and has very flexible side walls. Great for flotation
> over sand, but not good in mud or rocky ground because of the
> relatively weak side walls. Forget about diff locks etc, they're just
> more to go wrong in the middle of nowhere, and if you DO need them on
> your trip you shouldn't be going alone. A second vehicle with a good
> rope is always the quickest way of getting unstuck.

I'd have thought the cost relative to the value of the vehicle would make it
un-economic anyway. Another thought for you - asking questions is a great
way to learn and we're all learning but the question itself suggests that
maybe you need to develop your knowledge of landies generally and also of
off-road driving techniques??

How about spending some of the money on a decent course covering the
vehicles and techniques? As Gordon says above, unless you're going into some
seriously extreme place you wont need diff-locks and if you are going to
such extreme places you shouldnt be on your own anyway, with or without
lockers.

Have fun - Mike.

On Monday, in article <[email protected]>
[email protected] "EMB" wrote:

> Steve Taylor wrote:
> > EMB wrote:
>
> >> New UJ's may do it - there may be a groove worn inside the old ones at
> >> the angle they used to run. Failing that wedges under the diff
> >> housing (check that the caster angle remains within spec) or a double
> >> cardan front prop-shaft.
> >>
> >
> > Or as my wife pointed out, "rolling" the diff can be very effective.
> >
> ie. wedges under the housing (if leaf sprung, or new radius arms if coil
> sprung) but you need to keep an eye on what you've done to the caster
> angle or they steer really badly.

I'd try new UJs first. The bearings and spiders do wear, and if you're
still within the original design limits for suspension height the other
stuff is pretty well pointless.


--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

"History shows that the Singularity started when Sir Tim Berners-Lee
was bitten by a radioactive spider."

EMB wrote:
> Jason Hall wrote:
>
>> So if it is the change in angle of the props then how do i cure it ?
>>
>>
> New UJ's may do it - there may be a groove worn inside the old ones at
> the angle they used to run. Failing that wedges under the diff housing
> (check that the caster angle remains within spec) or a double cardan
> front prop-shaft.
>

Or as my wife pointed out, "rolling" the diff can be very effective.

Steve

Steve Taylor wrote:
> EMB wrote:

>> New UJ's may do it - there may be a groove worn inside the old ones at
>> the angle they used to run. Failing that wedges under the diff
>> housing (check that the caster angle remains within spec) or a double
>> cardan front prop-shaft.
>>
>
> Or as my wife pointed out, "rolling" the diff can be very effective.
>
ie. wedges under the housing (if leaf sprung, or new radius arms if coil
sprung) but you need to keep an eye on what you've done to the caster
angle or they steer really badly.


--
EMB
change two to number to reply

I have ARB air lockers on both axles (93 200 tdi discovery) the lockers are available for the 10m spline halfshafts but the later 23 (I think) shafts are stronger. I fitted stronger halfshafts/flanges/CV's and yes it was expensive, but the vehicle now see's off road action (and I really mean 'off road') most weekends, I spend a lot of time putting the truck in places where it should get stuck and the lockers keep you going! There is a weakness on the air lockers and it is a plastic 'cage' which disengages the locker when the air is switched off this can break so before fitting the locker have the cage changed to a steel one.

There is an electric operated locker on the market but I found dealer/installation support very poor and this moved me to ARB's as the support in the UK and here in Spain is good.

For what it's worth I have an electric winch up front and carry a tirfor and Hi Lift and have not needed them up to now, may be i'm not trying hard enough!

regards

Dave