Diesel additive, 2-stroke oil?

Just out of interest, because I may of got very confused.

If I went out today, and bought 10ltrs of Veg oil from tesco, then went and bought 20 ltrs of diesel from their pumps, mixed it all up in the tank, my landy would run fine?

Never heard of anything like this before, hence the confusion.

yes it would be fine....been running my 300tdi on veg oil for ages now and ran my pug 406 before.The veg oil running question normally opens up a bag o worms on how people mix etc.......safe to say as long as yer aint got a lucas IP and your only using 1/3 oil you'll be fine.

So even on a TD5 this would work? I remember somebody saying it wouldn't?

just remember guys & girls veg oil is now not as cheap as deisel

78p/l at costco.....

Free if you nick it off parents

LOcal ASDA had an offer on so I bought 36 litres in 3L bottles, and in their carpark tipped in the Disco TD5.

Taxi guy spotted it and asked. Puggy he was driving.
He bought 42 litres, tipped it in, then got on his radio.

ASDA cleared out of offer oil inside half an hour, and HUNDREDS of empty 3L bottles stacked in the trolley park!

My TD5 runs really well on a miox of 50-50 veg and diesel. Noticeably better.

CharlesY

Off road day tomorrow - filled the tank 3/4 with used engine oil and kero - topped it up with diesel - it will get a good run tomorrow then it will be off road route for about 70 miles. I shall report back with the consumption on this stuff.

Also engine sounds much quieter, runs smoother and picks up speed quicker.

After some fairly basic experiments with filtered used hydraulic oil I've come to the conclusion that a mix of 33% oil to DERV is about right for my TD5.
I tried a 50% mix but it did not start easily from cold and on two occassions when it was particularly cold I use a small blast of propane (from my blow torch) into the air intake to get to fire. It was no problem when hot on a 50% mix and towed a loaded double horse box and a twin axle caravan (not at the same time) with no trouble. I'm sure that as the weather warms up I could get away with a 40% mix. ie. 8 litres oil to 12 litres DERV which just happens to be a jerry can full.
All in all I can see no downside so long as I can get the used oil easily and in my case for nowt. I'll change my fuel filter when I do the oil filters so I should not have any problems there. Because the hydraulic oil is quite thin the pump does not seem to have any trouble. It is slightly more visous than DERV but once mixed it seems fine.
My next experiments will be with used engine oil. Watch this space.

Oil is oil!

Most of the horror stories about damaging engines by using anything but pump diesel with full tax paid are simply horror stories put about by people and organisations who hope to talk you out of using anything except tax paid pump fuel.
Who has an interest is us buying full tax fuels from filling stations?
Guess who those people might be!

CharlesY

CharlesY said:

Oil is oil!

Most of the horror stories about damaging engines by using anything but pump diesel with full tax paid are simply horror stories put about by people and organisations who hope to talk you out of using anything except tax paid pump fuel.
CharlesY

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I just need to come up with a way of filtering the engine oil properly. The hydraulic oil is quite clean in comparison.
The reason I'm looking at this is because used engine oil is far more readily available, and in greater quantities, than used hydraulic oil. Virtually every local indy service garage has told me that they have to pay to get rid and would let me have it for nothing. Most of them are happy as I'd be taking it away and not being paid so there is no profit in dumping it.
One place even said that it would do me free MOTs if I could help them to cut back on disposal costs.
My wife thinks I've gone crazy but I reckon if I can crack the filtration and mixing process it's a great way of saving money and recycling some obnoxious stuff at the same time.

Shifty1962 said:

I just need to come up with a way of filtering the engine oil properly. The hydraulic oil is quite clean in comparison.
The reason I'm looking at this is because used engine oil is far more readily available, and in greater quantities, than used hydraulic oil. Virtually every local indy service garage has told me that they have to pay to get rid and would let me have it for nothing. Most of them are happy as I'd be taking it away and not being paid so there is no profit in dumping it.
One place even said that it would do me free MOTs if I could help them to cut back on disposal costs.
My wife thinks I've gone crazy but I reckon if I can crack the filtration and mixing process it's a great way of saving money and recycling some obnoxious stuff at the same time.

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Don't be TOO fussy about filtration.

Stage one is to let it settle out, and any water and hard bits can drop to the bottom.

Stage two is to get it out of your holding tank and through some filters.

Your local hydraulics people will have plenty good kit, and you could ask for two big filters (big = lasts longer) joined in SERIES (that's one after the other). The first filter could be one that stops everything bigger than 25 microns, and the second one stops anything bigger than 10 microns. Your hydraulic man will know. Filtering in two stages is a good principle.

The BLACK in engine oil is way too small to filter out and is nice carbon black, a perfectly good fuel and lubricant. Think of it like a teaspoonful of laser toner mixed in a litre of oil.

After that the oil is fit to lob into the fuel tank, and I reckon you could start with a 1 : 4 brew (1 oil to 4 diesel) and see how it goes.

Of course, if you had a nice big can full of filtered engine oil and added 10% to 15% kerosene to thin it down to diesel viscosity more or less, you wouldn't need any diesel fuel at all. Whilst PETROL is not quite as good a thinning agent as kerosene, it is TAX PAID, and that makes the oil-petrol brew legal as I see it.

You would be far from alone ....

CharlesY

That was exactly what I had in mind. Use petrol instead of kero and if my tank gets dipped there's nothing in there that should not be.
I'm currently allowed 2500 litres of reclaimed oil as fuel with no tax liability per year.
So no problems as far as I see it with the revenue.

CharlesY said:

Of course, if you had a nice big can full of filtered engine oil and added 10% to 15% kerosene to thin it down to diesel viscosity more or less, you wouldn't need any diesel fuel at all. Whilst PETROL is not quite as good a thinning agent as kerosene, it is TAX PAID, and that makes the oil-petrol brew legal as I see it.
CharlesY

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CharlesY not doubting you and not yet done any experiments but why would petrol not be as good at thinning?
I understand that the final viscosity is important hence the need to thin but adding kero or petrol also increases the "burnability" (dont know the thechnical term) of the mix which I understand is also needed.
Having been dipped in our Volvo just a few weeks ago in my local Wickes car park (the sneaky bastards were dipping all diesel vehicles including private cars) I'm keen to avoid any problems from a taxation and revenue dipping point of view.

Shifty1962 said:

CharlesY not doubting you and not yet done any experiments but why would petrol not be as good at thinning?
I understand that the final viscosity is important hence the need to thin but adding kero or petrol also increases the "burnability" (dont know the thechnical term) of the mix which I understand is also needed.
Having been dipped in our Volvo just a few weeks ago in my local Wickes car park (the sneaky bastards were dipping all diesel vehicles including private cars) I'm keen to avoid any problems from a taxation and revenue dipping point of view.

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The snag with gasoline/petrol is that it has a very low boiling point, and can so easily cause big vapour bubbles in the system. I speak with some experience having personally filled 68 litres of unleaded PETROL into my TD5 Disco tank !

It probably won't make a lot of difference whether you use petrol or kerosene or some of each. CharlesY

I've got to jerrys full of stale petrol (more thanm a year old) that wont even run the lawn mower properly so it should be good for thinning.
I'd not considered the vapour lock side of things. I guess the only way to find out is to try.

Vapour lockimg should not be a problem except in TD5 engines and diesels with common rail fuel injection. Iy you have an injection pump and a pipe to each injector I am sure you'll be just fine using old gasoline as a thinning agent.

CharlesY

Hi CharlesY.
Picking your brains again.
Been offered hundreds of litres of used "spark eroder" fluid which I'm told is much like a highly refined diesel oil. Not had any dealings with this stuff but if it can be used as fuel then its yet another source of reclaimed oil.
Any experience with this type of oil?
I've searched the internet but can only come up with a flashpoint of 110 deg C.
I would think it would need careful filtering as it wil be full of microscopic metal partical from the spark erosion process.

Found the following if anyone is interested.

Fuels and their flash points at atmospheric pressure in deg F:
To convert to deg C T(oC) = 5/9[T(oF) - 32]

Fuel Flash Point (oF)
Acetaldehyde -36
Acetone 0
Benzene 12
Carbon Disulfide -22
Diesel Fuel (1-D) 100
Diesel Fuel (2-D) 125
Diesel Fuel (4-D) 130
Ethyl Alcohol 55
Fuels Oil No.1 100 - 162
Fuels Oil No.2 126 - 204
Fuels Oil No.4 142 - 240
Fuels Oil No.5 156 - 336
Fuels Oil No.5 160 - 250
Fuels Oil No.6 150
Gasoline -45
Gear oil 375 - 580
Iso-Butane -117
Iso-Pentane <-60
Iso-Octane 10
Kerosine 100 - 162
Methyl Alcohol 52
Motor oil 420 - 485
n-Butane -76
n-Pentane < -40
n-Hexane -7
n-Heptane 25
n-Octane 56
Naphthalene 174
NeoHexane -54
Propane -156

Shifty1962 said:

Hi CharlesY.
Picking your brains again.
Been offered hundreds of litres of used "spark eroder" fluid which I'm told is much like a highly refined diesel oil. Not had any dealings with this stuff but if it can be used as fuel then its yet another source of reclaimed oil.
Any experience with this type of oil?
I've searched the internet but can only come up with a flashpoint of 110 deg C.
I would think it would need careful filtering as it wil be full of microscopic metal partical from the spark erosion process.

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Wow ... I had a look at the internet and found that this spark erosion fluid is for all the world the same thing as transformer oil, and very much like diesel fuel. I am quite sure a decent diesel engine wouldn't know the difference between this stuff and diesel, but once again I would say to check the viscosity - thickness - of the oil against standard diesel. A simple test of relative thickness is to have a tall clear tube of each oil and use a stop-watch to time how long it takes a big ball-bearing to drop to the bottom. If it's a bit thicker just add it to diesel in your tank half-in-half. Every litre into the tank saves you a pound ...

Read this .... The use of Dielectrics in spark erosion

Right at the end they refer to paper filtration, which is very good news for you! If there was a lot of this oil available I think I would be VERY interested. Hydraulics people, two filters and a wee pump you can rig up to an electric motor. Pump through 25 and 10 micron filters, and see what you end up with. It could be a whole lot of very nice fuel oil.

CharlesY