Freelander 1 Diagnostic questions ( hawkeye total )

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hd3

hd3

Well-Known Member
Full Member
Posts
3,603
Location
Bradford u.k.
.. td4/m47r engine ..
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

( 17th jul. .. edit : .. skip to 2nd post to see diagnostic result )

hi all ..

i need to ask some questions about using a diagnostic-reader ..
the device be a 'hawkeye total'
( 'cause there's scant info about the device online
( apart from calling the bearmach support line

thing is .. the td4 hippo1 .. be a few miles away from my home and computer
so am trying to pre-arm myself with whatever info i can gather
before i go and try to fault find the engine issue .. probably tomorrow
( issue : starts .. idles .. but engine cuts out when the go-pedal is pressed )

i previously tried to read data ..
but unfortunately the l.p.had failed .. so engine would not fire up
( so unable to read live running data )
and had ****!!! cleared stored codes before attempting a start-up ..
( and had just fitted a new maf sensor )
the hawkeye at .. 'ignition on' command .. reported an 'open electric circuit' to the l.p.pump
that's as far as i got ..
( l.p.pump and relay / fuse all ok now )

sooo .. the fault issue be in theory just now
( hoping to read fault codes 'n live data tomorrow
( fingers crossed and many knocks-on-wood that the engine at least starts 'n idles
( have been told it does .. but knowing my luck .. etc etc

IF it turns out to be a fuel delivery problem
the only old part that could be suspect ( in my thinking ) be the low pressure sensor
or .. the new h.p.fuel pump and / or its fuel regulator
( the inertia switch looks to be ok
( and am assuming that device would cut the fuel altogether if triggered
( i.e. no start up at all

i can see the how fuel regulator might cause an issue ..
but what could be wrong .. mechanically .. within the h.p.pump ..
to cause a lack of pressure ??
( bit of a nightmare If the new h.p.pump were to be at fault
( as LR parts have previously said they wouldn't replace it ..
( so at a guess i would need good evidence that it is at fault

~~~~~~~~~~

ok .. have searched the forum ( and google )
found some useful vids re. the hawkeye ( cheers @ Hippo )
and fuel pressure-at-idle info ( thanx @ Nodge )

but .. still have some diagnostic questions ..
the basis of which are .. will i see a fault-code ?
and how to interpret / what to look for .. regarding the live-data
( for now i'm thinking 'fuel pressure' and 'voltage at the sensors' should be watched
( anything else i should watch ?

how might these show up on the hawkeye :
if the fuel low pressure sensor be at fault ?
if the new fuel regulator on the h.p.pump be at fault ?
if the new h.p.pump be at fault ?
if the crankshaft sensor be at fault ?
( am rekoning the crank sensor would throw a fault code
( please correct me if i'm wrong

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

so far ;

fuel filter .. be ok
l.p. fuel pump / relay and fuse .. be ok
( have some new relays at hand .. just in case )
fuel lines cleared of possible obstructions
h.p. fuel pump and regulator .. new .. but a **possible suspect**
injectors ( leak-back test ) .. be ok
high pressure fuel rail sensor .. be ok
rail sensor harness .. be ok
maf sensor .. be ok
has new air-filter

mechanically the engine .. afaik .. be in good shape
thinking the issue must be .. fuel .. or air .. or electrics ( sensors and voltage to them )

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

will be taking notes on next diagnostic attempt
and will share any info / results .. later on ..

sorry .. post longer than anticipated
cheers in advance for any replys to related info

~ S ~
 
Last edited:
ground control to major Tom
i think we have a result :)

in short .. the conclusion be that the regulator on the new h.p.pump be at fault
( in that the mechanics / techies agree with my findings )

~~~~~~~~~~~

codes read:

P1190 fuel pressure plausibility
regulator [ .. ]

P1190 valve sticking

~~~~~~~~~~~~

live data .. engine idling

fuel high pressure 107,400 kpa
( way way toooooo much !! knocking and smoking like a steam train
( however .. methinks it shows the mechanical part of the h.p. pump be working ok

fuel low pressure 391 kpa
( so low press. system ok )

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

(EDIT) should mention :

whilst the engine were running ..
the techie disconnected the high pressure fuel rail sensor plug
the engine would then rev up quite well .. using the ecu default mapping
although still loads of smoke out the exhaust ..

i.e. it were now driveable ..

( with the sensor plug re-connected
( it did its choking routine .. then died completely

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

feeling hopeful now that m' hippo will finally be back on the road

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
Last edited:
So many components that can give similar faults.
Click to expand...
true .. might depend on which diagnostic reader is used ..

e.g. this owner just got " P1190- Fuel Rail Pressure Plausibility "
end problem turned out to be the h.p.regulator
https://forums.lr4x4.com/topic/103889-td4-p1190-fuel-rail-pressure-plausibility/
( just been searching for a h.p.regulator on google 'n happened to see that ..)

whereas .. the hawkeye kindly informed me that it were the regulator
and that its valve be sticking

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
They are a pain those common rails when they start going wrong.
Click to expand...

ah yes .. but get this :

riding in taxi down to garage this morn. ..
chatting to driver .. who strangely used to own a landy repair place ..
and .. who's been following this breakdown saga ( broken since may 21st )
as he's given me a few rides to the garage ..
anyhowz .. he told me of an issue he had with a skoda diesel ..
' intermittent stalling when engine had warmed up'
he took it to umpteen places to figure out the issue .. no joy ..
in the end it turned out to be the injector wiring harness
the heat would cause a weak spot on the wiring to separate
an oddly be ok when the engine had cooled down

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
 
So many components ..
Click to expand...

had me thinking of a sight seen today in the workshop
newish landy ( didn't note which ) .. ingenium diesel engine ..
engine had seized up .. and be separated from car ..
the engine were 'effing huge in itself .. but ..
the amount of hoses and electrical harnesses etc was truly frightening

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
 
hd3 said:
fuel high pressure 107,400 kpa
( way way toooooo much !!
Click to expand...

That's about 4 times the pressure it should be at idle. The EDC is likely shutting down the engine, simply because the measured fuel pressure is so high.

The regulator on the HP pump could be at fault, or the bypass drilling in the HP pump is blocked.
 
When yer tag people don't put a space between the @ and the username. If yer do it won't work so they won't get called with a notification
Click to expand...
ok .. :) ..
but .. the space were intentional .. didn't want to bother ppl ..
'n figured .. given the header text ..
the odds were good that yourself 'n others would give it a read ..

.. or the bypass drilling in the HP pump is blocked.
Click to expand...
the regulator and pump came as one unit .. ..
and were replaced with same ..
so i guess we shall never know ..

anyhow .. up 'n running now ...

except .. the ac don't work now ..
( and my re-gass press. gauge be broken )
and ..
the i.a.t sensor plug ( female part ) ..
wiring broke right level with the plug .. no wire to solder ..

i saw this thread ..
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/air-temperature-sensor-connector.306415/#post-3837844
as the metal clip be missing from the old plug .. could use a new one ..
and " junior power timer " were mentioned ..

so found this site .. ( J.P.T. Female connector. Black. 2 way )
https://polevolt.co.uk/acatalog/J.P.T.-Female-connector.-Black.-2-way.-20910.html#SID=58
can anyone confirm that it be the right plug ?
( no dimensions for it at mo. )
IF it is .. i'll post the link in the 'parts' thread ..
( pic of plug attached )
J.P.T.FemaleconnectorBlack2way.jpg


cheers .. :)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
Hi that’s the right plug for the boost temp sensor
Click to expand...
many thanx td4van :)

Presumably it was replaced FOC, as it was obviously faulty.
Click to expand...
yes FOC ..
actually some labour was FOC as well ..
i.e. .. the time spent trying to diagnose the issue in the first place
as the biggest drawback was a lack of suitable diagnostic equipment
and the fact that the l.p.pump died while they were trying to figure it all out

funny though .. the techies 1st suspect Was the new h.p.pump
( i.e. before the l.p.pump kicked the bucket )
but LR refused to send a replacement ..
if i hadn't had the hawkeye to pinpoint the issue(s)
would have had to transport the sick hippo elsewhere

they're getting the T4 diagnostic system now
maybe prompted by the episode with mine ..
( saw a couple of defenders in the workshop .. yesterday )

btw: that ingenium diesel lump .. seen in the workshop ..
one cylinder / piston .. all messed up .. seized up ..
the cost of replacing the engine .. £28k .. :eek:
( vehicle price / value be aprox. £44k )

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
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