Detailed workshop manuals, better than the standard ones?

Hello all, I have the Landrover Defender workshop and parts manuals as
both printed versions and PDFs, but find them to be rather lacking in
detail. I have an old Lotus project car in the garage that has
workshop manuals that quite frankly put the Landrover one to shame in
a major way. The Lotus ones were so good that I tackled a complete
rebuild of a fairly complicated engine with confidence despite it
being my first ever major car project, never having known in detail
how an engine worked before. I wouldn't have felt happy making my
Defender engine the subject of my first engine rebuild given only the
detail in the Landrover manual.

The manual I have is publication number LRL0097ENG, is this as good as
it gets for the Defender or is there a better, more detailed one that
I can buy?

TIA!

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

Ian Rawlings wrote:

> Hello all, I have the Landrover Defender workshop and parts manuals as
> both printed versions and PDFs, but find them to be rather lacking in
> detail. I have an old Lotus project car in the garage that has
> workshop manuals that quite frankly put the Landrover one to shame in
> a major way. The Lotus ones were so good that I tackled a complete
> rebuild of a fairly complicated engine with confidence despite it
> being my first ever major car project, never having known in detail
> how an engine worked before. I wouldn't have felt happy making my
> Defender engine the subject of my first engine rebuild given only the
> detail in the Landrover manual.
>
> The manual I have is publication number LRL0097ENG, is this as good as
> it gets for the Defender or is there a better, more detailed one that
> I can buy?
>
> TIA!
>

Series manuals (1&2 in particular) are much better than the 90/110 and
Defender ones. I think it is that after the Series Landrovers they decided
that only professional mechanics would be working on them. The main reason
for this is to avoid liability I suspect.
JD

On 2006-01-04, JD <[email protected]> wrote:

> Series manuals (1&2 in particular) are much better than the 90/110 and
> Defender ones. I think it is that after the Series Landrovers they decided
> that only professional mechanics would be working on them. The main reason
> for this is to avoid liability I suspect.

Possibly, although if that's the case then Lotus have gone the other
way, I've not seen the Elise manuals but for my ancient Esprit
pile-o-parts the manuals for that are both still available despite it
being 16 or so years old and are far more detailed than earlier
models. If landrover have decided to go in the opposite direction
that's a shame. The type 920 engine in the plastic rocket is far more
complex than the 300TDi non-ECU engine in my landy but the manuals
from Lotus are excellent and make the whole thing easy to understand
despite the ECU, turbo, chargecooler, vacuum control system etc etc.

I've got gearbox overhaul manuals for the Defender, but no engine
overhaul manuals, does such a thing exist? It's even quite hard to
track down electrical manuals for mine (1994 110 300TDi) as the only
ones I've found are for the ECU-equipped Defender, although the
differences appear to only really affect emissions control.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

In message <[email protected]>
Ian Rawlings <[email protected]> wrote:

> On 2006-01-04, JD <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Series manuals (1&2 in particular) are much better than the 90/110 and
> > Defender ones. I think it is that after the Series Landrovers they decided
> > that only professional mechanics would be working on them. The main reason
> > for this is to avoid liability I suspect.
>
> Possibly, although if that's the case then Lotus have gone the other
> way, I've not seen the Elise manuals but for my ancient Esprit
> pile-o-parts the manuals for that are both still available despite it
> being 16 or so years old and are far more detailed than earlier
> models. If landrover have decided to go in the opposite direction
> that's a shame. The type 920 engine in the plastic rocket is far more
> complex than the 300TDi non-ECU engine in my landy but the manuals
> from Lotus are excellent and make the whole thing easy to understand
> despite the ECU, turbo, chargecooler, vacuum control system etc etc.
>
> I've got gearbox overhaul manuals for the Defender, but no engine
> overhaul manuals, does such a thing exist? It's even quite hard to
> track down electrical manuals for mine (1994 110 300TDi) as the only
> ones I've found are for the ECU-equipped Defender, although the
> differences appear to only really affect emissions control.
>

I'd hazard a guess that the post-Series manuals are written by
jobbing Technical Authors, whereas the Series manuals were most
likely written by long-term Rover employees who had a good understanding
themeselves of the subject matter. Some compaies still insist that
the manual writers actually do the task being written about rather
that rely on second-hand info, I'd hazard a guess thar LR isn't one
of them.

The same goes for the parts books - the old ones are true assembly
drawings, whereas the current ones can only really be said to be
sketches - See the Defender Td5 cooling system for some very confusing
sketches as an example.

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
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Ian Rawlings wrote:
> Hello all, I have the Landrover Defender workshop and parts manuals as
> both printed versions and PDFs, but find them to be rather lacking in
> detail. I have an old Lotus project car in the garage that has
> workshop manuals that quite frankly put the Landrover one to shame in
> a major way. The Lotus ones were so good that I tackled a complete
> rebuild of a fairly complicated engine with confidence despite it
> being my first ever major car project, never having known in detail
> how an engine worked before. I wouldn't have felt happy making my
> Defender engine the subject of my first engine rebuild given only the
> detail in the Landrover manual.
>
> The manual I have is publication number LRL0097ENG, is this as good as
> it gets for the Defender or is there a better, more detailed one that
> I can buy?
>
> TIA!
>

I think part of the reason why the LR manuals are not so detailed is
that they are written as working reminders for mechanics who have
already been on the courses provided for franchised dealerships. Unless
I'm mistaken, Lotus never had an extensive dealership network and so the
cars were more likely to be worked on by your average Joe. Plus with
Lotus' lack of finance they probably couldn't justify the cost of
technical authors write the manuals so got staff members to do it. As
with the early Series LR manuals you then end up with excellent books
written by enthusiasts.

Try to get hold of an Army EMER (Electrical and Mechanical Engineering
Regulation) for the Defender - they're excellent ... but rarer than
hen's teeth.

--
Regards

Steve G

On 2006-01-04, SteveG <_@_._> wrote:

> Try to get hold of an Army EMER (Electrical and Mechanical Engineering
> Regulation) for the Defender - they're excellent ... but rarer than
> hen's teeth.

Hmm, does anyone have one of these that I can perhaps bring into
contact with my sheet-fed duplex scanner so this situation can be
partially rectified? Or anyone know where I can get a printed copy
from? I'll have a search on the net tomorrow to try and locate some
sources but if they're stored next to the rocking horse droppings then
even google won't get that far.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 00:25:04 +0000, Ian Rawlings <[email protected]>
wrote:

>The manual I have is publication number LRL0097ENG, is this as good as
>it gets for the Defender or is there a better, more detailed one that
>I can buy?

Ive got publication number SLR621ENWH which is a ringbound ninety/one
ten workshop manual. Seems alright, but im comparing it to haynes
manuals!
How good is your scanner? This is an inch or 2 thick.

On 2006-01-04, Tom Woods <[email protected]> wrote:

> Ive got publication number SLR621ENWH which is a ringbound
> ninety/one ten workshop manual. Seems alright, but im comparing it
> to haynes manuals!

Is it any better than the standard landrover manual though? The
description seems to match the one I already have although that's no
real guide. Just about anything's better than the Haynes manuals!
How many pages does it have, and can you get some shots of some pages
by scanning them or taking some shots with a digital camera?

I've just found publication "LRL 0070ENG" as a PDF, a 300TDi overhaul
manual, looks interesting.

> How good is your scanner? This is an inch or 2 thick.

Well it made short work of 3 inches of Lotus double-sided manual, it
takes a while but I scanned it in section by section, took almost a
whole day but I was working while it continued in the background on
another computer, then when I'd noticed it stopped I'd put the next
section in.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

Tom Woods <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 00:25:04 +0000, Ian Rawlings <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> The manual I have is publication number LRL0097ENG, is this as good as
>> it gets for the Defender or is there a better, more detailed one that
>> I can buy?
>
> Ive got publication number SLR621ENWH which is a ringbound ninety/one
> ten workshop manual. Seems alright,

Any idea where I'd find such a thing for sale?

> but im comparing it to haynes
> manuals!

heh - so far as I can see (from the Haynes site) there isn't even a H-Bol
for mine (110 V8 on a 'K') - I have a copy of the diesel haynes but of
course that is of limited value.

--
William Tasso

110 V8 (white)

On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 23:27:54 +0000, Ian Rawlings <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 2006-01-04, Tom Woods <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Ive got publication number SLR621ENWH which is a ringbound
>> ninety/one ten workshop manual. Seems alright, but im comparing it
>> to haynes manuals!
>
>Is it any better than the standard landrover manual though? The
>description seems to match the one I already have although that's no
>real guide. Just about anything's better than the Haynes manuals!
>How many pages does it have, and can you get some shots of some pages
>by scanning them or taking some shots with a digital camera?

This is the 2.5diesel timing belt section that i scanned in for
someone else:
http://www.zen68482.zen.co.uk/landy/LR 2.5 timing belt.pdf

Its a proper landrover book. It is in a grey ring folder. Says
'Workshop manual
Ninety
One Ten'

In one corner at the front above a black, white and green drawing of a
ninety.

I'm not sure how many pages it has as they aint numbered consequtively
- each section starts from 1 again. Its about an inch or two of paper
though.
The table of contents at the front says it has 5 parts. Each part is
then split into further sections (not necessarily with consecutive
numbers again too!)

I'll snap a few more pics later.

On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 23:42:07 -0000, "William Tasso"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Any idea where I'd find such a thing for sale?

50p from a charity shop! (I'm not joking!)

On or around Wed, 04 Jan 2006 23:42:07 -0000, "William Tasso"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Tom Woods <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 00:25:04 +0000, Ian Rawlings <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The manual I have is publication number LRL0097ENG, is this as good as
>>> it gets for the Defender or is there a better, more detailed one that
>>> I can buy?
>>
>> Ive got publication number SLR621ENWH which is a ringbound ninety/one
>> ten workshop manual. Seems alright,
>
>Any idea where I'd find such a thing for sale?
>
>> but im comparing it to haynes
>> manuals!
>
>heh - so far as I can see (from the Haynes site) there isn't even a H-Bol
>for mine (110 V8 on a 'K') - I have a copy of the diesel haynes but of
>course that is of limited value.

I found the range rover book good for the V8 bit.

That site in Estonia has a lot of the manuals in PDF.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Festina Lente" (Hasten slowly) Suetonius (c.70-c.140) Augustus, 25

Ian Rawlings wrote:
> On 2006-01-04, SteveG <_@_._> wrote:
>
>
>>Try to get hold of an Army EMER (Electrical and Mechanical Engineering
>>Regulation) for the Defender - they're excellent ... but rarer than
>>hen's teeth.
>
>
> Hmm, does anyone have one of these that I can perhaps bring into
> contact with my sheet-fed duplex scanner so this situation can be
> partially rectified? Or anyone know where I can get a printed copy
> from? I'll have a search on the net tomorrow to try and locate some
> sources but if they're stored next to the rocking horse droppings then
> even google won't get that far.
>

I've put out some feelers amongst my old TA comrades but it's quite
possible they're still classified documents. One downside would be the
engine - the poor old military never saw the 200Tdi and the 300 only
came with the current Wolf.

I'll keep the group posted with any progress.

Maybe someone in EMVA has some? Wayne?


--
Regards

Steve G

On 2006-01-05, SteveG <_@_._> wrote:

> I've put out some feelers amongst my old TA comrades but it's quite
> possible they're still classified documents.

Well I do have security clearance and the required "need to know" ;-)

> One downside would be the engine - the poor old military never saw
> the 200Tdi and the 300 only came with the current Wolf.

Hmm, that would be a PITA if no 300TDi.

> I'll keep the group posted with any progress.

Excellent, thanks!

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

Ian Rawlings wrote:

> On 2006-01-05, SteveG <_@_._> wrote:

> Hmm, that would be a PITA if no 300TDi.

Did you check on Austin's suggestion of the Estonian site?
http://www.landrover.ee/est/files/manuals/engine/300TDi_Engine_Overhaul_Manual.pdf

..... or were you wanting more than the engine.

On or around Fri, 06 Jan 2006 15:58:45 +0000, Dougal
<DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:

>Ian Rawlings wrote:
>
>> On 2006-01-05, SteveG <_@_._> wrote:
>
>> Hmm, that would be a PITA if no 300TDi.
>
>Did you check on Austin's suggestion of the Estonian site?
>http://www.landrover.ee/est/files/manuals/engine/300TDi_Engine_Overhaul_Manual.pdf
>
>.... or were you wanting more than the engine.

ah, well done. I can never remember it.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"The breezy call of incense-breathing Morn, The swallow twittering
from the strawbuilt shed, The cock's shrill clarion, or the echoing
horn, No more shall rouse them from their lowly bed."
Thomas Gray, Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard.

LR produced several detailed manuals some of which turn up on ebay, also
my local non franchised parts supplier has cd's for each vehicle
produced by LR; the one for RR classic has 2 parts manuals, 3 service
manuals, 2 elecy trouble shooting,and 2 owners handbooks. and I expect
the RAVE cd's have it all if you can find a copy.

Anyway there definitely exist engine overhaul manuals for 300 TDI and
V8, overhaul manuals for r380 gearbox and transfer boxes LT230Q &LT230T,
and defender elecy manuals: Some years ago when all else failed
(including main dealers) Land Rover Enthusiast bookshop got me a copy of
the RR leccy troubleshooting manual, it was a lot of money mind.

Also some of the suppliments in the back of the series3 cover the same
equipment, eg as I have just been looking the LT230T transfer box.
Series III manuals were up on the web somewhere.

--
If you received this through the miracle of modern technology then all
is well; if not then situation normal.
Chris father of ( also at [email protected] )
www.users.zetnet.co.uk/barnes_firsnorton

On 2006-01-05, Warwick Barnes <[email protected]> wrote:

> and defender elecy manuals:

Getting a Defender electrical manual has never been a problem, getting
one that matches my vehicle, a 1994 Defender 110 hardtop, has been
harder. All the ones I've seen so far have bits mixed into the
diagrams that mine just doesn't have, e.g ECU. The electrical diagams
I have, both printed and PDF, refer to either later or much earlier
vehicles.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

On 2006-01-06, Austin Shackles <[email protected]> wrote:

> ah, well done. I can never remember it.

Cheers, I've got that one already, I'll post a reminder to myself to
check out the other files on the site though when I'm near a computer
with a decent display.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

On or around Fri, 6 Jan 2006 18:49:16 +0000, Ian Rawlings
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>On 2006-01-06, Austin Shackles <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> ah, well done. I can never remember it.
>
>Cheers, I've got that one already, I'll post a reminder to myself to
>check out the other files on the site though when I'm near a computer
>with a decent display.

I never need to remember it 'cos I downloaded most of them when I first
found it.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep."
Robert Frost (1874-1963) from Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening