Defender - blue smoke on start up

Last year I needed operations on both eyes and knew I would not be driving for +/- 6 months. I tried to read the owners manual but could not see to read!. I connected a solar charger to the battery hoping to keep it topped up as the vehicle would just be parked - big mistake!

As soon as I had had my operations and could see to read I read DO NOT connect a charger to the battery while it is connected to the vehicle. Sure enough it would not start. Battery had plenty of power but the ECU? said no. However I discovered by turning the ignition key to on and leaving it for 10 minutes it would start in a fashion, often stalling and running terrible.

It has now improved a lot but still runs rough on start up with lots of blue? smoke that stinks awful.

I have decided it is time I got it sorted and guess it needs to be connected to a computer?. I am wondering if independent Land Rover specialists have the correct programme or do I need to go to a main dealer.

Thanks

Mike

what is it.

Gmacz said:

what is it.

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Good point! 2008 Defender 110 TDCi 75,000miles

Mike

I've got a nanocom which could be plugged in to read faults if you not too far away, what county are you in? As far as programming goes you will need to ask your indy if they have the capability.
When did you last change the fuel filter? could it be full of crap and causing the bad running?

I dont think your poor running is anything to do with charging your battery while still connected up, especially as you were only using a solar charger, disconnecting the battery before using a battery charger used to be to protect your alternator diode.
As mentioned above it will more likely be fuel/filter or injector/air filter/pipe leak or other problem.

Wimblowdriver said:

I've got a nanocom which could be plugged in to read faults if you not too far away, what county are you in? As far as programming goes you will need to ask your indy if they have the capability.
When did you last change the fuel filter? could it be full of crap and causing the bad running?

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Thanks for offer. Location is North Yorkshire, I travel to/from Whitby and Harrogate every Sunday.
Ref fuel filter. The vehicle has been serviced from new by the same garage (not a Land Rover specialist, in fact he openly says he hates Defenders) however I thought he was doing a good job for me. When the vehicle would not start which did exactly coincide with it being connected to the solar charger I did have a look at the fuel filter and noticed it was the original. It had not been changed in 9 years!. I guess the guy was not doing as good a job as I thought!. Perhaps he did not know where it is fitted?

So the vehicle was due a service and I was recommended to go to a Land Rover specialist located on a farm near Great Ayton. The service was an eye watering £900 and they said the engine is running correctly for this vehicle!. Apparently they should run like a bag of spanners on start up and churn out lots of foul smelling smoke. Having said that it did pass its MOT emissions test, I can only think the test is pretty tolerant.

Mike

Scooby22 said:

I dont think your poor running is anything to do with charging your battery while still connected up, especially as you were only using a solar charger, disconnecting the battery before using a battery charger used to be to protect your alternator diode.
As mentioned above it will more likely be fuel/filter or injector/air filter/pipe leak or other problem.

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Thanks Scooby, The owners manual does make it clear that the battery should not be left connected to the vehicle while charging. I did consider this but had very bad cataracts and could not read the small print in the book. It also sounds as if it is complicated to remove the battery to charge (something to do with the ECU?).

Mike

mike56 said:

Thanks Scooby, The owners manual does make it clear that the battery should not be left connected to the vehicle while charging. I did consider this but had very bad cataracts and could not read the small print in the book. It also sounds as if it is complicated to remove the battery to charge (something to do with the ECU?).

Mike

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AMR motors are very good and know landrovers inside out, I always go there for my MOT, I service my own Defender though, £900 was an awfull lot of money for just a service did they do any other work, I was quoted ~£220 when I first bought my Defender (TD5), (I serviced it myself) prices have gone up since then but £900 phew. I have had a few other jobs done there and at a reasonable price, (for a specialist garage)

A solar charger won’t harm the vehicle. The battery chargers to avoid connecting are the old style transformer based ones that put out unsmoothed unregulated DC, particularly the “boost start” type.
And only if the battery is flat. If the battery has some charge left in it you should still be OK as it will act as a capacitor and smooth out the output from the charger.

mike56 said:

Apparently they should run like a bag of spanners on start up and churn out lots of foul smelling smoke. Having said that it did pass its MOT emissions test, I can only think the test is pretty tolerant.

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That sounds like total garbage to me. Mine starts on the button and runs like a turbine from the off, no smoke or rattles at all. The current MOT test is a visual smoke test when the engine is hot. No exhaust analysing like on a petrol engine. Specialist ha ha!! "we know best and what we tell you is gospel even if it is bollox and we'll charge you as much as we like."

Scooby22 said:

AMR motors are very good and know landrovers inside out, I always go there for my MOT, I service my own Defender though, £900 was an awfull lot of money for just a service did they do any other work, I was quoted ~£220 when I first bought my Defender (TD5), (I serviced it myself) prices have gone up since then but £900 phew. I have had a few other jobs done there and at a reasonable price, (for a specialist garage)

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The £900 did include other work and a class 7 MOT. The other jobs included new stainless steel brake pistons all round (over £400) and a replacement universal joint on the rear drive shaft. Still £900 (ish) was a big shock.

Mike

Wimblowdriver said:

That sounds like total garbage to me. Mine starts on the button and runs like a turbine from the off, no smoke or rattles at all. The current MOT test is a visual smoke test when the engine is hot. No exhaust analysing like on a petrol engine. Specialist ha ha!! "we know best and what we tell you is gospel even if it is bollox and we'll charge you as much as we like."

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That explains how it will have passed the MOT. I feel the problem is mainly on start up, when the vehicle has been running and warmed up it is much less obvious.

Mike

lightning said:

The battery chargers to avoid connecting are the old style transformer based ones that put out unsmoothed unregulated DC

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I've always disconnected the battery before charging, life time habit I guess. But I bought my charger in 1975 and it still works

Yes using a normal battery charger the battery should be disconnected, the solar charger will not have caused any problems though, they only have a trickle charge rate at best.

mike56 said:

he vehicle has been serviced from new by the same garage (not a Land Rover specialist, in fact he openly says he hates Defenders)

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Do you know what specification oil he was using? has the engine suffered some wear due to the wrong oil being used? = rattles and smoke on start up?

Wimblowdriver said:

Do you know what specification oil he was using? has the engine suffered some wear due to the wrong oil being used? = rattles and smoke on start up?

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To the best of my knowledge the correct oil has always been used. I made clear to the original garage (one man band) that I wanted him to use the specification in the owners manual. I also remember him apologising for the price of it (he had to buy it in specially). I have some in the garage Comma X Flow Type F 5w-30 Fully synthetic Suitable for Ford Zetec, Dura Tec and Dura Torq pre 2009. Specification WSS-M2C913-A (and B) and others on the container.

As far as I understand this oil is correct?

Difficult to explain however that the same person did not think to change the fuel filter for 8 years despite me supplying him with a proper Land Rover service schedule. When I looked at the fuel filter with a view to changing it it was very rusty and I am sure it would have crumbled in my hand while unscrewing.

There is certainly a difference of opinion between the owners manual and everyone posting on here. I have no knowledge on the subject myself but the problem did not creep up on me, it exactly coincided with the solar charging just like flicking a switch.

I need to get the vehicle booked in to have it checked with diagnostics and will report in due course.

Mike

mike56 said:

Comma X Flow Type F 5w-30 Fully synthetic Suitable for Ford Zetec, Dura Tec and Dura Torq pre 2009. Specification WSS-M2C913-A (and B) and others on the container.

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That oil is an older spec and will have been correct when your vehicle was new. It will not be the cause of your rattles etc so I was on the wrong track there I think. Comma oils are not that expensive and I use them myself, also Halfords brand is Comma oil in a Halfords bottle. The updated spec for your oil is WSS-M2C913-D, I recently bought 10 litres of Comma XTECH on the bay for £36. If your vehicle has a DPF then ford spec WSS-M2C934-B should be used.

Been reading back through your posts; firstly it is NOT normal to run like a bag of spanners with lots of stinky smoke on start up. If that started to occur just after your "specialist" changed the fuel filter, I reckon he did not purge all the air out of the system. Or the fuel pressure sensor has failed. Or the glow plugs need changing. I think you do need to get it on diagnostics to find the cause. I would put my nanocom on for you but you are a bit too far away.

Wimblowdriver said:

Been reading back through your posts; firstly it is NOT normal to run like a bag of spanners with lots of stinky smoke on start up. If that started to occur just after your "specialist" changed the fuel filter, I reckon he did not purge all the air out of the system. Or the fuel pressure sensor has failed. Or the glow plugs need changing. I think you do need to get it on diagnostics to find the cause. I would put my nanocom on for you but you are a bit too far away.

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The poor running was not as a result of changing the fuel filter, the fuel filter was changed weeks after I initially had the problem. The vehicle failed to start completely after the battery had been connected to the solar panel. I note every man and his dog have stated connecting to the solar panel will not make any difference. In fact the vehicle would not start at all for a couple of weeks unless I turned the ignition on and left the vehicle for a few minutes. I had hoped the vehicle would have improved having had its service but it is still very rough just after start up. Of course it is only my interpretation of what is rough and smelly but it was OK until the solar panel incident. I am making arrangements to take it for diagnostics in next week or so.

Mike

mike56 said:

The poor running was not as a result of changing the fuel filter, the fuel filter was changed weeks after I initially had the problem. The vehicle failed to start completely after the battery had been connected to the solar panel. I note every man and his dog have stated connecting to the solar panel will not make any difference. In fact the vehicle would not start at all for a couple of weeks unless I turned the ignition on and left the vehicle for a few minutes. I had hoped the vehicle would have improved having had its service but it is still very rough just after start up. Of course it is only my interpretation of what is rough and smelly but it was OK until the solar panel incident. I am making arrangements to take it for diagnostics in next week or so.

Mike

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Or a result of the prolonged lay-up, causing a problem, water in fuel, seal shrinking, fuel or air leak, air filter problem, could be a number of other things, worse case is the head gasket gone, especially if your antifreeze in not up to scratch and it froze during the lay-up.