De- complicating a TD5

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DavidJR

New Member
Posts
222
Never seen a TD5, and only been eassing with landrovers 3 weeks. Give me a Vauxhall Nova and a c20xe (20l 16v) and im in my element.

But i was thinking about how complicated, un-workable and un reliable new diesels are and was wondering if, Like the c20xe you can revert them back to a good ole ecu etc of the 200-300tdi. (c20xe you put on carbs). I have a new Zafira 150ps deisel and wish i had a 2nd landy instead. (DPF, EGR, Turbo problems etc etc)

I know very little about a common rail deisel, or even a regular deisel for that matter just enough to take them to bits and put em together. i assume the td5 is common rail so this may be the first hurdle.

Any toughts or experiences on the matter? could it be done.
 
The TD5 is nothing like the 200 or 300 series turbo diesels. It is a bloody good engine producing loads of torque and decent MPG considering its powering a brick through the air. Mine has had its problems but has now done 120k miles and runs like a sewing machine. Don't be put off by all you read about the TD5. You only hear about the bad ones. There are plenty of them that have gone round the clock twice with nothing but basic servicing and spare parts. You can remove the EGR with basic tools and its a piece of pish to work on as everything is metric. Parts are readily available. The TD5 is reliable so long as you look after it.

But then you should look after any engine shouldn't you?
 
You could put a TD5 into a wheelbarrow if you tried hard enough. No reason why it wont fit into an earlier defender but you need to make sure you've got all the wiring harness, ECU, and engine sensors or it wont run. You also need the high pressure fuel pump as a normal lift pump wont cut it. Probably cheaper to buy a later TD5 defender.
 
I know how involved an engine change is. That wasn't my thought.


If you could take all the sensors off, and ge rid of the TD5 cu you would be left with a diesel that behaved and was controled in an old fasioned manner.

Its not like there is any varianble valve timings or stuff like that, the sensors are there to ell the ECU "im good to go"

Or this is my understandings if similar to older EFi petrols.
 
What would you use to control it then?

First thing, the fueling, this is electronically controlled - IF you could build your own ECU, then connect it to a throttle and get it to control the pump etc... I guess it could be done, but we are talking about more money than it would be just to go and buy a whole TD5 defender. If you REALLY want TD5 in your machine you would need to get a written off TD5 or at least one going cheap for it to be worth it, which you could take the complete electrical system from, fuel system, engine and all the sensors.
 
Last edited:
DavidJR said:
I know how involved an engine change is. That wasn't my thought.


If you could take all the sensors off, and ge rid of the TD5 cu you would be left with a diesel that behaved and was controled in an old fasioned manner.
Click to expand...

If you took all the sensors off you would be left with no more than a pile of bits. It wont run in a month of Sundays.

DavidJR said:
Its not like there is any varianble valve timings or stuff like that, the sensors are there to ell the ECU "im good to go"

Or this is my understandings if similar to older EFi petrols.
Click to expand...
Yes the sensors tell the ECU whats going on but the ECU also runs the engine based upon what its being told.
The ECU triggers the injectors (a form of variable timing). They are not like older diesel injectors that work on pressure alone. These babies fire fuel at more than 1,500 bar or 22,000 psi (not a typo) all controlled by the ECU which is why the injectors are individually coded to the ECU and you cant just swap them around from cylinder to cylinder. The ECU needs flywheel sensors, throttle position, ambient air temp, ambient air pressure, fuel temp, turbo manifold pressure, manifold air temperature, oxygen sensor, oil pressure, and a **** load more to make the engine run.
The throttle is fly by wire direct to the ECU - you cant fit a cable because there's nothing to fit it to.

If you can work out how to bin all of this and

1) get the TD5 to run
2) assuming it is running pass emmission tests you'll be a rich man

Sorry to **** on your fireworks but thems the facts. The TD5 wont just run like an older diesel on fuel alone.
 
Why not buy one of those "Army Surplus" brand new Defenders that are about, with the 300TDi engine in them.
Then you'll have your new Defender with the simpler engine. Just what you are asking for, and Land Rover has done all the work for you!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by slim jim
Shifty is the man to ask on here he has fcuk all to learn about TD5's
Quote:
Originally Posted by YorkshireSteve
Success! Cheers for your help on this one Shifty
Quote:
Originally Posted by adseybear
I was hoping you'd come to the rescue Shifty
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzcktv
That's an innovative approach Shifty!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJJ
Thanks Shifty. All clear now

Sorry Shifty i realise i should have PM'd you for advice before posting. LOL

As for wanting a TD5, i dont. im quite happy with my 200tdi for the foreseeable future.

I look at it and know that the only thing i wouldn't be confident or happy about doing is a full engine rebore and build.

As for messing with my Zafira, i probably wouldn't,. Which is why i thought i could suggest something for positive or negative opinions from experience pn the TD5.

Quote:
The ECU triggers the injectors (a form of variable timing). They are not like older diesel injectors that work on pressure alone. These babies fire fuel at more than 1,500 bar or 22,000 psi (not a typo) all controlled by the ECU which is why the injectors are individually coded to the ECU and you cant just swap them around from cylinder to cylinder. The ECU needs flywheel sensors, throttle position, ambient air temp, ambient air pressure, fuel temp, turbo manifold pressure, manifold air temperature, oxygen sensor, oil pressure, and a **** load more to make the engine run.

I did say this in my first post
Quote:
I know very little about a common rail deisel, or even a regular deisel for that matter just enough to take them to bits and put em together. i assume the td5 is common rail so this may be the first hurdle.

Any ways.

heres another quote for your profile shifty.


Your TD5 looks sweet. Your knowledge is even sweeter:p
 
DavidJR said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by slim jim
Shifty is the man to ask on here he has fcuk all to learn about TD5's
Quote:
Originally Posted by YorkshireSteve
Success! Cheers for your help on this one Shifty
Quote:
Originally Posted by adseybear
I was hoping you'd come to the rescue Shifty
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzcktv
That's an innovative approach Shifty!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJJ
Thanks Shifty. All clear now

Sorry Shifty i realise i should have PM'd you for advice before posting. LOL

As for wanting a TD5, i dont. im quite happy with my 200tdi for the foreseeable future.

I look at it and know that the only thing i wouldn't be confident or happy about doing is a full engine rebore and build.

As for messing with my Zafira, i probably wouldn't,. Which is why i thought i could suggest something for positive or negative opinions from experience pn the TD5.

Quote:
The ECU triggers the injectors (a form of variable timing). They are not like older diesel injectors that work on pressure alone. These babies fire fuel at more than 1,500 bar or 22,000 psi (not a typo) all controlled by the ECU which is why the injectors are individually coded to the ECU and you cant just swap them around from cylinder to cylinder. The ECU needs flywheel sensors, throttle position, ambient air temp, ambient air pressure, fuel temp, turbo manifold pressure, manifold air temperature, oxygen sensor, oil pressure, and a **** load more to make the engine run.

I did say this in my first post
Quote:
I know very little about a common rail deisel, or even a regular deisel for that matter just enough to take them to bits and put em together. i assume the td5 is common rail so this may be the first hurdle.

Any ways.

heres another quote for your profile shifty.


Your TD5 looks sweet. Your knowledge is even sweeter:p
Click to expand...
Nothing posted on here is personal but sometimes the advice given may appear a little harsh or abrupt. Its not meant to be. We all had to start somewhere and the biggest hurdle is asking the first question. There are no bad questions. If you dont ask you'll never know. Having said that you will need a thick skin to get the most from this forum. There's a lot of knowledgable peeps on here who far exceed my humble ramblings when it comes to Land Rovers of all types. I'm a sarcastic git when the mood takes me but I'll always take the time to try and educate those who want to learn. I've learnt more from the bush mechanics in Africa than I ever did at home by so called experts. I've also owned Land Rovers since I could legally drive which is more years than I care to remember.

Don't be put off by all you hear regarding the TD5. Its a cracking engine and you only hear about the bad ones.
 
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