Converting TD5 Auto to Manual Box?

Love my 2003 Disco but really not getting on well with an auto box. Crossed my mind that it might be possible to convert an auto to a manual box. Can you advise if this is possible, easy, expensive etc. Has anybody done it?

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that's all I know Land Rover Owner :: View topic - Td5 auto convert to manual help

criky18 said:

Love my 2003 Disco but really not getting on well with an auto box. Crossed my mind that it might be possible to convert an auto to a manual box. Can you advise if this is possible, easy, expensive etc. Has anybody done it?

Obliged for comments.

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It's quite a big and potentially expensive job to change from auto to manual, so can I ask, what do you mean by "not getting on well with the autobox" ?

Perhaps it could be that with some new information or guidance, you to be more settled with the autobox.

So, what's the problem........................................................?

sierrafery said:

that's all I know Land Rover Owner :: View topic - Td5 auto convert to manual help

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Thankyou Sierrafery. Looks like a big task but I will have a close look.

criky18 said:

Thankyou Sierrafery. Looks like a big task but I will have a close look.

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No response to my mail then Criky?

thebiglad said:

It's quite a big and potentially expensive job to change from auto to manual, so can I ask, what do you mean by "not getting on well with the autobox" ?

Perhaps it could be that with some new information or guidance, you to be more settled with the autobox.

So, what's the problem........................................................?

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Thankyou Biglad............. I can feel the fatherly arm around the shoulder despite me being a pensioner. If you are prepared to read then I am prepared to write. You were good enough to offer some help in my other recent thread of slow to power up in the morning. A further reply started offering what was no doubt sound advice but I could see myself being drawn into a lot of trial and error and cost!

All spin but little sign of power..........

Bought my 2003 TD5 ES 120k as a treat a few weeks ago privately. After picking up and coming down the motorway was disappointed by lots of slip, high revs and little willingness to get into a higher gear despite backoff. 3000rpm at 60 knots later showed that top gear was not kicking in.


Full service couple of days later with autobox oil/filter change. Then we had the 'put into reverse when cold problem' and many seconds before pickup. No 'kick' as I would expect. Checked gb fill and it took another litre but no change in cold starts. Gear changes were however more apparent with top now locking in at 55.

The big problem I still have is that the engine revs very high without the oomph... that you would expect. Trickling along at 30 requires about 2k revs. The slightest backoff and the vehicle slows. The slightest peddle increase and the engine rockets to 2300, 2500 like a windmill spinning but no real power or dramatic speed increase. Its like a badly slipping clutch.

Hitting the peddle hard certainly does provide high spin and drive but nothing like the power and control that I have when top gear is locked in and I accelerate from there.

Also noticed that vehicle is quite happy to slowly roll back when on a slope in drive.

Think I've read most of the associated threads and I'm stuck between the conclusion of a bad box or a disco driver who is not gracefully accepting the workings of an auto.

My latest plan was to invest in a 'full diagnostics' but I get the impression this will provide no guarantee and may merely confirm box is fine, driver is not.

Hence my dilemma. If you are willing to stay with me I'm very happy to do whatever tests you prescribe in the hope of disproving or proving. I do have a caravan but really have no faith in being able to get that 'bite' you need with power and moderate revs.

Obliged for any help.

Are u sure that the clutch is not sliping?..........a slipping cutch could mess things up.........but Im a bit unexperienced with autobox behaviour

criky18 said:

Thankyou Biglad............. I can feel the fatherly arm around the shoulder despite me being a pensioner. If you are prepared to read then I am prepared to write. You were good enough to offer some help in my other recent thread of slow to power up in the morning. A further reply started offering what was no doubt sound advice but I could see myself being drawn into a lot of trial and error and cost!

All spin but little sign of power..........

Bought my 2003 TD5 ES 120k as a treat a few weeks ago privately. After picking up and coming down the motorway was disappointed by lots of slip, high revs and little willingness to get into a higher gear despite backoff. 3000rpm at 60 knots later showed that top gear was not kicking in.


Full service couple of days later with autobox oil/filter change. Then we had the 'put into reverse when cold problem' and many seconds before pickup. No 'kick' as I would expect. Checked gb fill and it took another litre but no change in cold starts. Gear changes were however more apparent with top now locking in at 55.

The big problem I still have is that the engine revs very high without the oomph... that you would expect. Trickling along at 30 requires about 2k revs. The slightest backoff and the vehicle slows. The slightest peddle increase and the engine rockets to 2300, 2500 like a windmill spinning but no real power or dramatic speed increase. Its like a badly slipping clutch.

Hitting the peddle hard certainly does provide high spin and drive but nothing like the power and control that I have when top gear is locked in and I accelerate from there.

Also noticed that vehicle is quite happy to slowly roll back when on a slope in drive.

Think I've read most of the associated threads and I'm stuck between the conclusion of a bad box or a disco driver who is not gracefully accepting the workings of an auto.

My latest plan was to invest in a 'full diagnostics' but I get the impression this will provide no guarantee and may merely confirm box is fine, driver is not.

Hence my dilemma. If you are willing to stay with me I'm very happy to do whatever tests you prescribe in the hope of disproving or proving. I do have a caravan but really have no faith in being able to get that 'bite' you need with power and moderate revs.

Obliged for any help.

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Ok Criky, fatherly arm fully applied from another pensioner !!

I do understand completely where you are coming from, honestly.

The manual TD5's do drive noticeably differently to the auto's but not always better.

1. TD5's have a generally accepted 'issue' about the way it delivers it's power, namely, sod all below about 2500rpm.

2. Now considor how the auto works, 4 speed auto with Torque Converter (TC) lock-up on 3rd and 4th. So when you are doing for example 45mph on a light throttle load, you will be in 4th gear but not yet in TC lock-up - as a result you get this clutch slipping feeling but does not engender confidence. Get up to 52-55mph and she'll slip into TC lock-up and everything quietens down.

However, imagine we are doing 60mph on a flat road, in TC lock-up and the world is well. What revs are you doing? About 2000rpm (remember point No 1) so we now come to a hill, you put your foot down a bit to compensate and nothing much happens, so you give her a bit more and before you know it you've dropped out of TC lock-up, the engine is sounding harsh at perhaps 3200rpm and it all seems a bit unneccesary.

What I'm hoping is that the hole in the power delivery is the REAL problem - being highlighted by the functioning of the autobox.

This is why I am having my car remapped next tues, specifically to create more torque between 1800 and 3000rpm, this should allow the engine to pull better at the revs we are so often operating at and at which the power deficit gives the autobox a hard time.

If you are prepared to diary forward and pm me after I get back next friday I'll have done a thousand kms so should be able to reassure both of us.

3. Towing - all of the above is only exascerbated by towing and I mean real towing not a little trailer to take your rubbish to the tip. 2 tons plus on the back of a Disco should be nothing at all, but the autobox behaviour leads us to believe that it won't cope. This is entirely unfounded !

To explain, I recently did an 800km round trip towing an empty horse trailer on the way there (so about 1 ton plus loads of windage) and a full load so 2tons + on the return. The weather could not have been worse, it was blowing a hooley and right on the nose all the way - nightmare towing scenario.

Was it a nightmare? Not at all !!!!! However, I learnt a new trick from practical experience rather that just intellectual understanding.

I was on motorways most of the time and was trying to keep above 55mph in D for the obvious TC lock-up reasons but without success so revs flying all over the place especially on hills.

So I decide to try running in 3rd gear with lock-up to see how the rig would feel. Absolute night and day difference !!!!!!! In 3rd gear lockup I was running at between 50 and 55mph comfortably, romping up hills with no danger of dropping out of lockup - stable revs and loads of drive. At this speeds the revs ranged from 2500 to 2700 so were outwith the hole in the power deliver, so all was well. And I averaged nearly 29mpg on the trip which I reckon, given the conditions, was remakable.

May I suggest you experiment a little with different gearbox settings and see how you get on.

All being well, next week my cars power delivery hole will be removed which should correct the only fault I have with the car, other than that I think she is just marvelous. I've had lots of top line cars in my time but I can honestly say that none of them give me the pleasure I get get driving "Françoise".

I have a v8 auto so the engine is different , but it may be worth driving it like a manual , try leaving it in 2 round town or as biglad says 3 on a roads and only use d if you aren't towing or are on a m/way.
even when i'm not towing I flick between d and 3 on slower (sub 50mph) a roads and will often leave it 2 round town if in 30mph zones , makes it much smoother.

fireman-andy said:

I have a v8 auto so the engine is different , but it may be worth driving it like a manual , try leaving it in 2 round town or as biglad says 3 on a roads and only use d if you aren't towing or are on a m/way.
even when i'm not towing I flick between d and 3 on slower (sub 50mph) a roads and will often leave it 2 round town if in 30mph zones , makes it much smoother.

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Agree with all of that - try a bit of experimenting, use the sports button for a bit.

Thanks guys... that is a little more reassuring. It seems as though what I am describing is quite normal with no obvious transmission problems. I will continue to experiment but with some concern on comment that third gear locks. I know fourth does as I can feel it, but it feels very much as though three is wandering without a lock. How do I check this please. Clearly if three was locking properly then I would feel much more comfortable and 'normal'.

Help so far appreciated.

criky18 said:

Thanks guys... that is a little more reassuring. It seems as though what I am describing is quite normal with no obvious transmission problems. I will continue to experiment but with some concern on comment that third gear locks. I know fourth does as I can feel it, but it feels very much as though three is wandering without a lock. How do I check this please. Clearly if three was locking properly then I would feel much more comfortable and 'normal'.

Help so far appreciated.

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Criky, the 3rd gear TC lock-up works exactly the same as D lockup (lu) but it come in at a slightly lower speed. Whereas 4th lu comes in at between 52 and 55mph on a light throttle, 3rd gear lu comes in at between 45 and 50mph.

If the lockup is working at all (and you know it is) I can see no reason why it shouldn't work in 3rd. You know you have to select "3" on the gear stick don't you? My advice? Select "3" at outset instead of "D" and do some running around like that, for a while and then see how you feel.

It should be noted that if you are in 3rd gear lu and you then select D, the box needs to come out of lu to change gear and will then automatically go back into lu if the road speed permits.

Cheers
Dave

Thank you. Will try.

Been running round town in third gear and this feels bit better. Not had chance for a country run with a third gear lock trial but presuming from whats been said this will be ok.

Couple of technical issues for you please.

1. Usual problem this morning of a cold start and very slow response from reverse take up. Five seconds plus.

2. Also when I then shifted into three, the engine stalled. Done this before.

3. Tried a load test as prescribed on another thread. Box good and warm. Into Drive with foot on break and full throttle. Revs went to 2900.

Does this tell us anything or does it confirm my paranoia.

Thankyou.........

Aargh..... should have added still getting roll back in D on a slope. Is this normal?

criky18 said:

Been running round town in third gear and this feels bit better. Not had chance for a country run with a third gear lock trial but presuming from whats been said this will be ok.

Couple of technical issues for you please.

1. Usual problem this morning of a cold start and very slow response from reverse take up. Five seconds plus.
2. Also when I then shifted into three, the engine stalled. Done this before.
3. Tried a load test as prescribed on another thread. Box good and warm. Into Drive with foot on break and full throttle. Revs went to 2900.

Does this tell us anything or does it confirm my paranoia.

Thankyou.........

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Hiya mate, some thoughts re your issues:

1. If you can, start the car in advance of needing by a minute or so. I will sometimes start mine, then go and get my bit and bobs, then drive off. Either that, or, start the engine, then put your seatbelt on before selecting any gears. I understand the delay you are referring to is between selection and actuation, but if you start the engine in advance the 'box oil pump starts to build up hydraulic pressure, which may help.

2. This is curious. Do you mean that after you started the engine you shifted from P to 3 and then the engine stalled? When you first fire up the engine in the morning and before selecting any gears, what speed does the engine tick-over at? This could indicate an engine fault which is having secondary impacts. Can't remember if you have checked the following:
A. Oil in the Red ECU plug;
B. Correct functioning of the MAF (mass airflow meter)
C. Correct functioning of the MAP (manifold absolute pressure) sensor

3. The "stall" test should give a result of between 2600 and 2800 rpm, so it sounds as though yours is about right. I would think that the difference between 2800 and 2900 is not negligable/readable on the rev counter.


And yes, it does confirm your paranoia

Cheers
Dave

Thankyou. Clarification on 2. Cold start; straight into reverse with normal delay (perhaps you're right - I'm too impatient ). Then after 20yds reverse, into 3 when stall occurs. Engine idle is 750 hot with c900cold.

Did a red plug clean up after initial problems. Well soaked, cleaned thoroughly, dried, reconnected and fine...... but no change to any issues.

No map or maf checks and with only isolated cases of stall perhaps unlikely and not a main issue at this time.

Yours sincerely,
Paranoid.

criky18 said:

Thankyou. Clarification on 2. Cold start; straight into reverse with normal delay (perhaps you're right - I'm too impatient ). Then after 20yds reverse, into 3 when stall occurs. Engine idle is 750 hot with c900cold.

Did a red plug clean up after initial problems. Well soaked, cleaned thoroughly, dried, reconnected and fine...... but no change to any issues.

No map or maf checks and with only isolated cases of stall perhaps unlikely and not a main issue at this time.

Yours sincerely,
Paranoid.

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Hi P, I assume you put your foot on the footbrake before moving from Reverse to 3?

Dave

hello Criky 18,
where are you in case another auto vehicle could arrange a meet and compare vehicles.
I have a 300Tdi auto, as far as i know same box,and i would not do without it.Also tow 15 foot caravan to north east of Scotland 2/3 times a year, 400 mile round trip, and keep geting a row from SWMBO for going too fast and have to rein back from 70+.
Jim Anderson
1996 300Tfi auto(jap reimport)

janderson41 said:

hello Criky 18,
where are you in case another auto vehicle could arrange a meet and compare vehicles.
I have a 300Tdi auto, as far as i know same box,and i would not do without it.Also tow 15 foot caravan to north east of Scotland 2/3 times a year, 400 mile round trip, and keep geting a row from SWMBO for going too fast and have to rein back from 70+.
Jim Anderson
1996 300Tfi auto(jap reimport)

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Hi Jim, unfortunately the engine and gearbox are pretty much completely different in the way they work, so comparisons would be of limited value imo.

Cheers
Dave