P38A Check engine light

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ovalandrover

ovalandrover

Well-Known Member
Posts
1,636
I have the check engine light come on when the car is above 2000 revs and pulling hard also the car tends to kick down . The idle is sometimes rough. The car is 1999 2.5 diesel. I have an idea what the problem is but just wonder if anyone has had same symptoms before I start to work on it. I know the answer is to put it on Nanacom but I had mine stolen and and awaiting a replacement from a friend but it is in South Africa and wont be here untill november and i will be in Australia then.I have not done any trips with the car this year but have been to Wrangle Island and will be going to Malta next week.
 
I have finally got around to investigating the problem and have changed over the ECU temperature sender the Crank position sensor No 4 injector lso tried a turbo boost sensor and it is still the same . Also i have had it put on diagnostics and no faults have turned up. Also unplugged MAF and diagnostic reconised it unplugged so that should be OK
The engine starts first time but does smoke if been standing for a while.
The car seem slugish on pull away untill it reaches 2500 rpm then it will hesitate and almost cut out and then take off but if power is still applied will start to miss.
When it does reach 2500 the engine light will come on and not go off untill the engine reaches 2000 rmp on deceleration and then it will hold it for about half a second before dropping back to idle.
Does anyone have any ideas what to try next without getting the FIP overhauled?
 
Might be something in the attached. IIRC it has what the combinations of engine lights mean.

The lift pump is working fine, isn't it? 250ml in however many seconds?

You say smoke on startup if it has been standing for a while. What colour s the smoke?

As you know, @wammers is the man on these engines but I don't think he's been well. Hopefully he's feeling a little better and might have an idea.
 

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  • Bosch_VE_Pumps.zip
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I am reviving this thread because i did not have time to get it fixed before i went back to australia and have only just got back from there and got the car out of storage and the fault is still there but it did pass its mot. I have also put it on a nanacom for diagnostics and the timing modulation was way to low at about 7% but when revs reached 2500 jumped to 80% so i have done the timing and it wasnt a mile out and the fault is still there but i dont have my nanacom lead to check modulation as i visited Grrrr to borrow his lead.
now the only things I can think of is the pump quantity servo is faulty. the engine EU is faulty or even wiring loom is faulty as i have a new no 4 injector and have tried new ecu temp sender and cps and map and maf all replaced and no difference to the faults. there were no other faults shown up on the nanacom or the diagnostic used by Rick the Pick.
any suggestions would be welcome. This fault only showed up after Sian engineering of sunbury had done the engine for a second time to rectify the big end that was meant to be done when engine overhauled. I know people are going to say take it back to them to rectify but i have lost so much faith in them I would not let them near any one of my cars again as the first time I was there under body trays went missing and heat shield went missing and also tool went missing including my nanacom and also they parked the car outside their yard while it was on sorn and i recieved a fine but they did pay that. also there was a bolt missing from the bell housing.
 
ovalandrover said:
I am reviving this thread because i did not have time to get it fixed before i went back to australia and have only just got back from there and got the car out of storage and the fault is still there but it did pass its mot. I have also put it on a nanacom for diagnostics and the timing modulation was way to low at about 7% but when revs reached 2500 jumped to 80% so i have done the timing and it wasnt a mile out and the fault is still there but i dont have my nanacom lead to check modulation as i visited Grrrr to borrow his lead.
now the only things I can think of is the pump quantity servo is faulty. the engine EU is faulty or even wiring loom is faulty as i have a new no 4 injector and have tried new ecu temp sender and cps and map and maf all replaced and no difference to the faults. there were no other faults shown up on the nanacom or the diagnostic used by Rick the Pick.
any suggestions would be welcome. This fault only showed up after Sian engineering of sunbury had done the engine for a second time to rectify the big end that was meant to be done when engine overhauled. I know people are going to say take it back to them to rectify but i have lost so much faith in them I would not let them near any one of my cars again as the first time I was there under body trays went missing and heat shield went missing and also tool went missing including my nanacom and also they parked the car outside their yard while it was on sorn and i recieved a fine but they did pay that. also there was a bolt missing from the bell housing.
Click to expand...

Modulation has nothing to do with quantity servo. It is about timing automatic adjustment. With static set correctly modulation should be around 45% to 55% at idle 750 RPM engine warm. Ideally 50%. With a injection point within 1 or 2 degrees of TDC. You check modulation at idle 750 RPM engine warm only. It will vary as RPM is increased and internal fuel pressure builds but that is to be expected. 7% at idle is showing an over advanced static setting. Static timing is 0.95 mm lift at TDC new chains. 0.90 mm at TDC old chains that have done more than 20,000 Km. MAF sensor has nothing to do with how engine runs as long as it is sound. If there is a fault it should be recorded and readable.
 
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well there is no faults recorded but there is a fault but the engine will idle at 750 and does sound a bit rough and is low on power up until 2500 rpm and then it will have a hesitation and then the IL light will come on momentarily and then increase rev s but will misfire when crusing at 60mph there are no faults recorded and the timing was set to specifications with a dial gauge so its a mystery. I replaced all the sensors with known good one just to eliminate them and also the no4 injector .have you any other suggestions.
I would be willing to bring the car up to you for you to check it
 
ovalandrover said:
well there is no faults recorded but there is a fault but the engine will idle at 750 and does sound a bit rough and is low on power up until 2500 rpm and then it will have a hesitation and then the IL light will come on momentarily and then increase rev s but will misfire when crusing at 60mph there are no faults recorded and the timing was set to specifications with a dial gauge so its a mystery. I replaced all the sensors with known good one just to eliminate them and also the no4 injector .have you any other suggestions.
I would be willing to bring the car up to you for you to check it
Click to expand...

Bit of a mystery then if MIL lamp comes on there is usually a registered fault. Have you checked the valve timing?
 
I checked the cam timing and the fip timing and it was perfect so what next.
does the engine ecu control the timing electrically?and what is the connections on the side of the pump? I think i will have to try another ecu. I have a ecu but it is on an earlier model nd i wonder if it will work as i think there is no egr or maf on that model
 
stemac33 said:
Ecu and becm need to be synced for it to work
Click to expand...

It runs but something isn't right. It doesn't sound quite right and get to a certain rpm and the check engine light flickers. At warm tickover the timing modulation is about 10% which is WAY too low.

It was working fine until some garage got hold of it. There is a suspicion they might have used it s a donor vehicle and swapped some parts but there is no proof. The FIP was refurbed 12 months or so ago(?) so should be fine but we just don't know if someone has been tinkering or nicking bits.
 
Does this help? Shows inputs used by EDC on the VE pumps. Although timing modulation is derived from comparing set start of injection (from CPS?) to actual observed (#4 injector) there are other inputs used.

Your modulation is advanced so not chain stretch as that usually retards injection. One of these other inputs is EGR which I think yours has. So what inputs does that use? MAF? Air temp (green one on block?) MAP? Other option is the start of injection solenoid. If pressure is too high then that might stuff the start of injection and show as advanced injection. Does it have powerbox fitted or similar? Has someone been playing with pump pressure?
EDC.jpg
 
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ovalandrover said:
I checked the cam timing and the fip timing and it was perfect so what next.
does the engine ecu control the timing electrically?and what is the connections on the side of the pump? I think i will have to try another ecu. I have a ecu but it is on an earlier model nd i wonder if it will work as i think there is no egr or maf on that model
Click to expand...
I think the early & late ECU's have different connectors.
 
Grrrrrr said:
Does this help? Shows inputs used by EDC on the VE pumps. Although timing modulation is derived from comparing set start of injection (from CPS?) to actual observed (#4 injector) there are other inputs used.

Your modulation is advanced so not chain stretch as that usually retards injection. One of these other inputs is EGR which I think yours has. So what inputs does that use? MAF? Air temp (green one on block?) MAP? Other option is the start of injection solenoid. If pressure is too high then that might stuff the start of injection and show as advanced injection. Does it have powerbox fitted or similar? Has someone been playing with pump pressure?
View attachment 149599
Click to expand...
The engine will run fine with the MAF disconnected.
 
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