Cant get MOT help

You sound really close now,if that header is leaking - at all then this will need welding if its cracked.They are made out of stainless steel,but they weld beautifully with an ordinary Mig welder.Good luck getting it off,its alot easier once you have removed the rh front wheel and arch liner.
The idle bypass screw may not seem to make any difference,but it does.On testbook it should be set to show 15-30 steps on the idle air control valve,all loads off.Do this after the "reset all adaptions" function and you will find it idles and picks up perfectly.
The leaking manifold will pull in air after each firing pulse from each cylinder on that bank,this will give a false,(lean)reading from the oxygen sensor so the engine Ecu will widen the pulse width,(richen) that bank.
Sort your manifold leak,ten mins on testbook and I think it will fly through the mot,do more miles per gallon,go better and be smoother than ever before.
Good luck !!

hi dave,

Your nearly there with yours. If you are going to take the manifold off. eithinavee is right it is easier with the wheel arch mud shield out. You will also need to disconect the steering shaft. go steady on your head shield fixings as the threaded inserts have a tendancy to turn out. Also dosn't help that land rover mack all there bolts from cheese!

Good luck.

P.S done just over 500 miles in mine and is going to have a oils and filter changed next week. Only had one little oil leak from the fiting from the oil cooler pipe to the oil filter housing. (just needed nipping up)

Bryan

i own a stainless fabrications co so if it is stainless i will give it a nice tig weld i tried to get the manifold shield off what a b**tard i gave up yesterday the bolts are round i may have to rip it off and get a new one how the hell do you get the bottom right one off?
i thought my new coil went down againas it was not firing on 8 and 3 again it turned out to be a cut wire that feeds one coil! so i have a spare coil pack with nothing wrong with it......regards dave
ps eight, can you alter the idle bypass on a normal diagnostic machine or does it have to be testbook...

Hi dave,

I told you the bolts were made from cheese. and your right it is a sod of a job. My first thought was to rip it off and get a new one. but when I saw the cost of new ones I decided to change my tackticks.

If you havent already done so you need to drop the y piece of at the down pipe. If you have taken the inner arch out and removed the stearing shaft. With the wheel of you should be able to get on them. I found that a little hack saw and to cut the threaded insert of the back.

to get the manifold off your going to need a very slim 12 sided socket and a very long extension. as one of the manifold bolts is right in the fold of the tubes.

Once I had the heatshields of drilled out the threaded inserts and fited new ones. I think I used M6 inserts from memory.

Your having fun then!!

Bryan

dave121 said:

i own a stainless fabrications co so if it is stainless i will give it a nice tig weld i tried to get the manifold shield off what a b**tard i gave up yesterday the bolts are round i may have to rip it off and get a new one how the hell do you get the bottom right one off?
i thought my new coil went down againas it was not firing on 8 and 3 again it turned out to be a cut wire that feeds one coil! so i have a spare coil pack with nothing wrong with it......regards dave
ps eight, can you alter the idle bypass on a normal diagnostic machine or does it have to be testbook...

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I only have Testbook,so its easy to me.You only need to be able to read the IACV number of steps on a live data display,so I guess any diagnostic computer that can get into Gems will do.Lots of garages give me work as a result of their computers not being able to talk to LR,Rover and MG stuff.All you do is turn the screw to get the right reading on the screen.Resetting the adaptions would have to be done on testbook or rovacom/autologic etc.

thanks guys, erm 12 sided socket thats a new one for me, i have 8 point and 16 point? no good then........what size is it by the way i tried a 12mm 16 point socket on it, and it was a bit slack i dont want to round them buggers off!!
i have an elmscan interface, i may try and see if i get any joy from that.
i have been told you can set the idle screw by ear "turn the screw until you hear the revs go up then turn back 1 and a quarter turns" ??
he said it will be close, it has to be between 15 - 30 steps or something like that
is there any way of resetting the adaptions without t/book like leaving the battery off a bit? thanks again guys the saga continues.............

hi guys managed to get the manifold off (totaly destroyed the heat deflectors) no obvious signs off leaks or cracks so i used some flaw finder and it ****ed out of the junctions where they all meet, well i thought how the hell can i weld in there? so i just built it all up inside with a mig and presto! all is good again so it will be going back on again tommorow without the heat sheilds,can i just get some exhaust rap!!will it fry my leads?
eight,,, is there any way i can set the adaptions without testbook etc? regards dave

I'd see how it goes first,as far as I know it has to go on Testbook,I have no other way of doing it.Certainly to reset the stored closed throttle position,it really does make a difference to how well they run once reset.

thanks eight, i have it booked in for a testbook on wednesday what are the things i should ask him to do? (ps no difference in co content it is stuck at 0.42 slight misfire on tickover)
1.reset adaptions
and? regards dave

First get rid of the misfire,without that the Co and Hc readings will never be low enough.
On testbook,get him to "reset all adaptions" in the sub-systems test bit of the menu,check the stored closed throttle position is between .6 and .8v,then adjust the idle bypass screw so the stepper position is shown as 15-30 steps,engine hot,all loads off.(A/C etc.)
When this is all in place get him to look at the oxygen sensor voltages on both banks,these should constantly cycle between 0 and 5v on both banks around once a second at idle.At a steady throttle,2500rpm they should also be switching - a bit quicker than at idle.If this is all ok then if the Cats are any good it will sail through an emissions test.You must get rid of that misfire though.I use an infared thermometer to check exhaust port temps - from this you can tell which cylinder/s arent working properly.Everyone laughed when I bought it,but its one of the most useful diagnostic tools I have.See if you can borrow one if you dont have one - it will speed up the final bits of your job.
Keep going - you are nearly there !!

thanks eight i will print that out so i armed with the info.....
1 thing has been puzzling me when i first took it for the mot the co had to be down to 0.3 now he says it has to be 0.2 or lower??
i have done a compression check on the engine and all but one are around 180 psi the other one is is 172 psi could this cause the misfire?
it is really annoying the misfire, as i cant seem to figure why, when you rev it,, it revs smoothly ?? or seems to do....
it pulls like a train on the road, plugs are looking normal very slight soot on a couple of them just on one side of them?? odd
you can smell the richness from the rear and the pipes are sooty regards dave

Hi Dave,

CO needs to be 0.3 or under... Have you had it pluged in yet? If you can smell fuel out the pipes and some of the plugs are sooty. You say the sooty plugs are on the one side. suggest a lazy co sensor.

Your Compression test shows that the cylinders are within 10% which is okay. If you had one which was very low then this could cause a misfire.

When you get it plugged in with the engine running and the computer showing the dynamics of the engine you will be able to get a clearer understandng of whats going on.

Sounds like your getting close.

Bryan.

hi bryan thanks for that, when i said the plugs are a little sooty on one side, i meant that 2 plugs, 1 on each bank are sooty on one side of the plug, if that makes sence ....when you have the plug in your hand one side looks normal light brown the otherside is sooted up??? cylinder 3+8 they share the same coil too....mmm i will find out a bit more tommorow hopefully regards dave

hi guys,took it for the testbook ...no faults found...still a misfire on tickover
i had to give the guy the printout that you told me to do eight, as he did not know how to do it, he said he could not reset the adaptions as there was no option to do so?? he set the icv to 20 steps that was on one step ( thanks mot station!!) he was using T4
he said the top water hose has to much pressure and said it could be the head or block.
put it on the gas analiser
co .58
hc 338
lambda 101

i have just bought new cats , and he says the cats are fine because the lamdas are ok?
he put the exhaust probe in the coolent resovoir and said the hc were 0n 10 indicating gas in the exhaust???
i have totaly run out of ideas now i think i am looking at a rebuild regards dave

Sorry I took so long to get back,10ppm HC's in the header tank is a bit of a worry,its about the most accurate way of dianosing combustion products from escaping into the wrong place.Bulging coolant hoses are also a good sign.When the failure worsens you can measure the pressure build up with a cooling system pressure tester - normally used to check for hose and rad leaks etc.
Have you looked at any of the plugs after the car has been left overnight ? Often the offending cylinder will have rusty deposits on the metal parts of the electrode area - and have a different colour to the rest of the plugs.Further on that plug will become difficult to remove as the threads go rusty.Remember only the end cyl's on each bank have coolant passages at their outer circumference - the 2 inner cyl's dont have any .So if you find the coolant is getting into the middle cyl's the chances are it is a porus block issue.Cracked heads are just about unknown on Rover V8's.End cyl's could be just a failing gasket - this is quite common,esp on LPG powered cars.
To help your testbook man,from the main Gems menu,go into Sub System Tests.From there chose ECM Options,Reset All Adaptions is on that page.
Good luck with your efforts,remember you have to get rid of the misfire - completely.Had a 4.6 in today with poor running,turned all the workshop lights off - then I could see odd sparks jumping around the plug leads on top of the coil packs,plus the Rh bank oxygen sensor has failed.Customer wont be happy but the car wont run properly on 8 till its had a sensor and a set of leads.$$$$$$$

thanks eight for the testbook info, he should have known that, it cost me 50 quid for his unknowledge (from a well known garage too!!)
the misfire is getting worse now on tickover i think it is time to call it a day and start stripping the engine, thanks to all you guys who have tried to help, regards dave

Hi Dave,

Sorry to hear the result. To conferm exhaust gas's in the coolent you could put a sniffer on it. Its a little device which has a green dye in it. You couple this to the expansion tank and run the engine. If exhaust gas's are present the dye changes colour.

If you are going to strip it then remove the heads and put the block on preasure test.

I made the pressure test kit for mine. I used 4 plates to block of the water ways on the block face. I then conected the coolent system back together and filled it with water. Using a standard pressure test kit which connects to the expansion bottle I pumped it to a around 30 psi and left it over night. If you have got porus block you will see water forming around the cylinder linner to block gap.

If you want a contact for machining your block, if you go that way let me know. Stripping the engine is only the begning. still its all the fun of owning a land rover product!!

Bryan

thanks bryan, and sorry for hijacking your thread lol
the funny thing is it pulls like a train , no oil in water or water in oil? plugs are not rusted no overheating, stays on the 12 oclock religiously
starts everytime in a fraction of a turn of the engine
does not use water or oil?????
no smoke out of the exhaust even when you boot it
puzzling.............

enginerestore said:

Blue Smoke on cold start up or overrun is usually due to one of two things:
1) turbo seals damaged and leaking due to low oil, or a stuck EGR valve causing overheating;
2) valve guide seals worn or shrunk allowing oil to drain into the cylinders overnight or allowing oil to be pulled through the guides into the combustion chamber under vacuum (overrun is going downhill without any throttle).
RESTORE will improve most fledgling turbo seal problems. However, it is difficult for RESTORE to splash its way up onto the valve guides so we have to provide some manual help; remove the rocker cover and use a 'turkey baster' or plastic syringe or oil can to squirt RESTORE right on to the valve stems. This will repair the metal in the guides (normally marine bronze or cast iron). Then squirt some Engine Stop Leak (Unipart) onto the valve stems as well. This will fatten up the tiny rubber valve guide seals (they are actually Neoprene or Nylon). Pour the rest of the Engine Stop Leak in the oil as normal. Replace the rocker cover and drive normally. Problem solved, hopefully, within 50 miles.
Blue Smoke on hard acceleration is due to piston blow-by. RESTORE will fix this in 500 miles providing the piston rings are not broken. Check the compression in each cylinder to find out if all cylinders are bad or just one cylinder. If all cylinders are bad, providing there are no broken rings, RESTORE should fix it in under 500 miles. If you have one bad cylinder, re-check the compression on that one cylinder, add 200ml of RESTORE oil through the spark plug hole and re-check the compression (called a leak-down compression test). If the compression is better with the RESTORE oil then RESTORE will fix the problem in that cylinder. If, however, the compression is the same low reading even with the RESTORE oil then the problem is not worn cylinders or rings, instead it is a burnt valve or valve seat and the cylinder head will have to come off to replace the valve and recut the valve seat.
here is the link
American Technology

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What a pile of cr-p.

If Dave121 is still out there I would love to know the out come of his problems as the whole thread made excellent reading, hey and a big shout for RESTORE if the guys had only know about that last year when they had all their problems the thread would not have been as long or interesting.
So come on Dave what happened?

Jim