Series 3 Can't engage gears whilst engine running

Hi all,
I've had my S3 for a couple of months now. Last week engaging 1st gear was becoming difficult. I don't drive it much and its been stood on the drive for about 4 days. This morning could engage 1st once and thats it, no luck since. 2nd, 3rd and 4th are the same. Reverse causes no bother at all.

Only happens when engine is running. When engine is off I can engage all of the gears with ease. So i've had to turn off engine, engage 1st and start engine again to get back up the drive.

Any ideas what the problem could be? Is it likely to be a fix I can do (not much experience but at least basic understanding how things work).

Cheers

Clutch gone.....

mikerajjers said:

Hi all,
I've had my S3 for a couple of months now. Last week engaging 1st gear was becoming difficult. I don't drive it much and its been stood on the drive for about 4 days. This morning could engage 1st once and thats it, no luck since. 2nd, 3rd and 4th are the same. Reverse causes no bother at all.

Only happens when engine is running. When engine is off I can engage all of the gears with ease. So i've had to turn off engine, engage 1st and start engine again to get back up the drive.

Any ideas what the problem could be? Is it likely to be a fix I can do (not much experience but at least basic understanding how things work).

Cheers

Click to expand...

Clutch is the main suspect, but if it will go into reverse without a problem, then that contradicts the clutch being the issue.With no syncro on reverse, you should be able to hear the teeth engage....something is clearly wrong.

Have you checked the oil level, or better still, changed it, and looked through the old oil for any bits which should still be in the box ?

Reverse has its own selector rod and fork, so it does half sound to me like you might have some selector issues at the mo - Can you describe trying to get into the syncronised gears in a different way? Its possible you've got selector issues, but its far more likely to be the clutch

How does the clutch feel? has the biting point moved - anything else you can tell us??

Thanks for the replies. I'm currently out for the day but will check the oil. I've had a look underneath earlier and all of the oils seem new as they are weeping near the discharge bolts (which corresponds to what the seller said). I was thinking there may be too little oil in the box however as the gear change issue seemed to improve last week after the engine and box was warm. My guess was the clutch is ok, the reasons being: 1. reverse has no issues, 2. There was never any clutch slip and biting point was fabulous, 3. When starting the engine in first gear i have the clutch pressed there are no problems. As i release the clutch the biting point is there and off i go.

My gut instinct is there is something wrong with the selectors, but then i would have thought theyd manifest themselves even when the engine is off

Also, the few times i did manage to get the gear in it felt like there was an obstacle preventing the gear lever movement. When i did get it in there was no grinding or untoward noises. I did some greenlaning and got stuck on a tree stump that was overgrown with grass. Looking back i dont remember having issue beforehand but i havent really driven it more than about 200km since i bought it. I've had a look underneath and there is certainly no visible damage or anything.

Could the issue have some relation to the synchro?

1st and 2nd synchro hub is a week part of the SIII box, but IME, tend to only give issues in either 1st, or 2nd - and quite often if you change the oil, the offending broken bits of the hub will come out with the oil - which is a bit of a give away !! said bits could even be jamming the mechanism up....

Or, the selectors are all to cock - I.E. loose on the rods or jammed up in some way...

If it's synchro, then to be all forward gears, I'm guessing no oil, (I.E. its all leaked out !!), or wrong oil. (too much could cause you problems, but that seems unlikely at the mo) stopping things moving freely....

As box engages with motor off unlikely anything to do with selectors.Start with the simple stuff like is there enough fluid in the clutch master reservoir,is the operating rod correctly attached and adjusted to the pedal arm. If you park on a slope in gear, engine and brakes off and its reluctant to roll off the clutch is not fully disengaging.

mikerajjers said:

Hi all,
I've had my S3 for a couple of months now. Last week engaging 1st gear was becoming difficult. I don't drive it much and its been stood on the drive for about 4 days. This morning could engage 1st once and thats it, no luck since. 2nd, 3rd and 4th are the same. Reverse causes no bother at all.

Only happens when engine is running. When engine is off I can engage all of the gears with ease. So i've had to turn off engine, engage 1st and start engine again to get back up the drive.

Any ideas what the problem could be? Is it likely to be a fix I can do (not much experience but at least basic understanding how things work).

Cheers

Click to expand...

it could be that reverse selector isnt full returning to neutral, any selector that doesnt exactly will inhibit the others from moving,

Right, I'm back home and have had another play with things. Reverse gear goes in, however, I've tried to do it slowly and when I do so there is a slight grinding. 1 and 2 wont engage at all, 3 and 4 with difficulty. Realised I don't have any spare gearbox oil to do a change. Will get some on Monday seeing tomorrow is a Sunday. Just to be certain, what types are ok?

Been out to check the master cylinder and fluid level looks fine to me. The drive is on a tiny incline, Landy rolls down fine both with and without engine running (clutch pressed of course). Biting point of first is immediate once releasing clutch without any slip.

These gearboxes can suffer from main gearbox oil migrating to the transfer box, worth checking if transfer is overful and main box low. Get someone to press the clutch peddle whilst you look at the flexi pipe that runs down at the back of the engine it may be "Ballooning" under pressure

mikerajjers said:

Right, I'm back home and have had another play with things. Reverse gear goes in, however, I've tried to do it slowly and when I do so there is a slight grinding. 1 and 2 wont engage at all, 3 and 4 with difficulty. Realised I don't have any spare gearbox oil to do a change. Will get some on Monday seeing tomorrow is a Sunday. Just to be certain, what types are ok?

Click to expand...

The full set of LR Series III workshop manuals are available to download from here:-

http://www.landroverweb.com/landrover/pdf-land-rover-manuals

mikerajjers said:

Been out to check the master cylinder and fluid level looks fine to me. The drive is on a tiny incline, Landy rolls down fine both with and without engine running (clutch pressed of course). Biting point of first is immediate once releasing clutch without any slip.

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IME, thats not right - the biting point should be about 2/3rds up the pedal.... worth doing what @divie said above, check for oil migration, and check the clutch hydraulic pipe for ballooning....

When I took out my engine and gearbox I drained the fluids first and the photo shows the quantity and quality of the oil that came out of the gearbox. The small blob you can see that is away from the main dribble of oil was 90% grey paste AKA ground up internals, I bought another box! Just to give a scale the bucket held 50 of those fat balls for the birdys

I've just spoken to my mechanic friend on the phone. He's coming to have a look at it tomorrow. From what I said he reckons it is something with the clutch. Probably not disengaging enough and says the system may only need bleeding or topping up. I'll let you all know what the problem is as soon as I know.

Hmm, not convinced it's the clutch given the contents of that bucket. Virtually no oil and a metal paste could stop the 1/2 slidey thing moving.

And you might want too drain the transfer box as well, that maybe where the rest of the gearbox oil is.

SpringDon said:

Hmm, not convinced it's the clutch given the contents of that bucket. Virtually no oil and a metal paste could stop the 1/2 slidey thing moving.

And you might want too drain the transfer box as well, that maybe where the rest of the gearbox oil is.

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I agree, if I saw that oil I would expect the box to be totally knackered.

But I dont think that pic is OPs gearbox, it is one someone else has posted in an attempt to clarify.

Turboman said:

I agree, if I saw that oil I would expect the box to be totally knackered.

But I dont think that pic is OPs gearbox, it is one someone else has posted in an attempt to clarify.

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Er, yes well, obviously I knew that. I was just pointing out that if that was the op's box then that would probably be the problem....

I'll drain the oil too, just need to buy some new oil tomorrow to refill. The manuals i downloaded look very informative though I've only had a quick glance. Thanks!

mikerajjers said:

I'll drain the oil too, just need to buy some new oil tomorrow to refill. The manuals i downloaded look very informative though I've only had a quick glance. Thanks!

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Good plan.
The condition and quantity of the oil, and any shrapnel that comes out with it, will give a good idea of the general condition of the box, and of the previous owners maintenance skills.

Bleed the clutch first

Do these old buggers have a way of measuring clutch wear with a go no go gauge like other models? (I'll look in the big green book this evening if I remember)