Camper Advice Please

I currently own a coach built motorhome which is very comfortable but has zero off road abilities. Even a grassy verge under some circumstances can immobilise it!!

What I would like is to be able to do some off roading, nothing extreme just rough tracks and unmade roads, whilst still having a modicum of comfort. I tend to do extended trips rather than week/weekend so getting the balance between off road and comfort is the challenge. Also to be honest I like the idea of owning a Landy (Defender) over a motorhome.

I'm looking at a number of options within my limited budget (about 10k). A station wagon or hard top 110 that I fit out myself; one that has already been fitted or possibly a Defender which already has a camper body. I've also looked at the roof tent option but as I'm also a keen hammock camper, I don't really see many advantages but quite a few disadvantages.

I've found this camper on ebay. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182220199261?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT (item number 182220199261)

Unfortunately its in a very inconvenient location (West Of Ireland) so viewing without a high degree of confidence is not realistic. My main concerns about it are (1) that it's not quite finished and may be a project which failed to live up to the owners expectations ( although he says he is selling it for family reasons ) and / or (2) the weight is a bit of a concern. It's about 700kgs heavier than standard although it does have 2" terrafirma suspension.

Apart from being interested in peoples general views on going the camper route, I would be interested in their comments about this ebay camper and how well they would expect it to perform/handle with the additional weight.

Thanks in advance

John

Why not just buy a Lwb and a roof box and tent it ....buy newer and if you come to sell up its not a niche market you're selling back into...
An awning off the side would see you right and at 700 k over .. you may find it off road as showing

Yes that's one of my options and a good point about selling into a niche market. I'm not that keen on relying on a tent for sleeping though as it's a bit limiting but like the idea of using an awning to extend living area. How much would the extra weight in this eBay camper compromise normal on road handling?

Defenders are not famed for their tight, on road handling ability I've never driven one with a camper on top, but the weight and the height it's at aren't going to help, especially on a bend. The extra shed, on top of the usual shed aerodynamics, will obviously affect fuel economy. Having said all that, if you are used to a camper van, I'm wondering why you are asking about handling and road manners.
I've been tent camping all my life and couldn't fancy being cramped up in something so small. Even with the back 'popped' up, there doesn't look to be much room to stand up in there.
Where do you go hammock camping? Are there many places you can do this legally in the UK? Do you go to Europe, or further? Do you have a portable frame? How far do you want to travel? How much time do you have per camping trip? How many of you are going? I think these are important questions to help you decide what to do.
If you fancy doing a little bit of off roading/laning then I'm with Stew Laws, buy a 110 or 90, depending on how many people you are taking.

There isn't an off the shelf solution for what you want, really.

I'd suggest, bearing in mind what you said about your motorhome and not wanting to go too far offroad or do anything too extreme, that standard 110 with a roofrack and awning would be good as a daily vehicle and as your camper, but also get a decent trailer and kit it out with better suspension, similar wheels and tyres as the Landy (extra spares etc) and built as a camper. I've seen them with pull out kitchens, rooftents on the top, bike racks bolted on, attachments for hammocks/tarps, extended canopies between the trailer/camper and vehicle ... basicallt build it to suit what you want, not what someone else wanted that you have to adapt to!!

Unless you can find something suitable, obviously.

I kitted out my Discovery 300 Tdi very cheaply for weekend, with a fold out sleeping area in the back and over the seats, others I know have done it with double beds etc ... With a bit of money and work almost anything can be bolted on!

Al2O3 said:

Defenders are not famed for their tight, on road handling ability I've never driven one with a camper on top, but the weight and the height it's at aren't going to help, especially on a bend. The extra shed, on top of the usual shed aerodynamics, will obviously affect fuel economy. Having said all that, if you are used to a camper van, I'm wondering why you are asking about handling and road manners.
I've been tent camping all my life and couldn't fancy being cramped up in something so small. Even with the back 'popped' up, there doesn't look to be much room to stand up in there.
Where do you go hammock camping? Are there many places you can do this legally in the UK? Do you go to Europe, or further? Do you have a portable frame? How far do you want to travel? How much time do you have per camping trip? How many of you are going? I think these are important questions to help you decide what to do.
If you fancy doing a little bit of off roading/laning then I'm with Stew Laws, buy a 110 or 90, depending on how many people you are taking.

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Many thanks for your comments. It's because of my motorhome experience I'm particularly interested in handling. A properly set up motorhome will handle. OK, just about. As this Landy camper is a home brew I'm trying to figure out which side of the line it might potentially be on.

Hammocking in the UK is a bit problematic. You tend to stick with a few familiar places. No a portable frame is not really a practical solution. I'm always on the look out for trees approx 9-12 apart, preferably N/S orientation lol.

The legality is another issue but if like me your gone by 7am it's never an issue. A hammock is the most comfortable and enjoyable mode of camping (and I do car/tent/mh as well) but it's not really a family or couple pursuit.

I'm planning on doing most of my camping on the Continent (solo) so I would be keen to incorporate the hammock in a solution. But my first trip will be winter in the Alps for 2 months so having a "camper" to retreat to is almost essential.

You would think there should be a suitable solution. A vehicle with 60% of your usual motorhome comforts which can cope with rough /slippy surfaces. In my case this whole quest started because the idea of putting my motorhome anywhere near snow would scare the sh** out of me. Ive set it up to handle well on normal roads but it has zero traction. 3.5t with fwd.

Paul D said:

There isn't an off the shelf solution for what you want, really.

I'd suggest, bearing in mind what you said about your motorhome and not wanting to go too far offroad or do anything too extreme, that standard 110 with a roofrack and awning would be good as a daily vehicle and as your camper, but also get a decent trailer and kit it out with better suspension, similar wheels and tyres as the Landy (extra spares etc) and built as a camper. I've seen them with pull out kitchens, rooftents on the top, bike racks bolted on, attachments for hammocks/tarps, extended canopies between the trailer/camper and vehicle ... basicallt build it to suit what you want, not what someone else wanted that you have to adapt to!!

Unless you can find something suitable, obviously.

I kitted out my Discovery 300 Tdi very cheaply for weekend, with a fold out sleeping area in the back and over the seats, others I know have done it with double beds etc ... With a bit of money and work almost anything can be bolted on!

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I must admit the more I look at this the closer I'm getting to your view and suggested solution. I've never used a trailer so it would be an unknown but maybe with a lot of thought into the combined Landy/trailer setup it's the best compromise. A limiting factor for me is my lack of diy skills (and £ of course) Thanks for your comments.... Food for thought!

Have a good look through some of the more expedition oriented threads on the forum, there's loads of info about trailers and fitting out Landys and dare I say it but there may even be someone willing to sell!

Looks great, but I'd guess it drives like an office block on anything but a dead straight road, I'm looking at doing something simple with my disco1, a bed sink+cooker affair, something easily removable, either that, or a trailer tent,

Paul D said:

Have a good look through some of the more expedition oriented threads on the forum, there's loads of info about trailers and fitting out Landys and dare I say it but there may even be someone willing to sell!

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Thanks I will.... and if anyone is selling anything that might fit the bill, I'm all ears!!

Hi John,

Myself and the other half though about this a lot and where we got to is just chuck a bed in the back of a 110; however, we don't have a 110 but a 90 so we have a pupup tent. I personally would not sleep on a roof in a roof tent because they are very expensive and shift the centre of gravity up, also if you going off road and things like branches go over the roof then they can catch the covers. If however you somewhere with bugs and snakes you don't want to eat you then they are perfect.

Unless you have a lot of money I'd just get a 110 and put a bed in the back, if you want it a little warm then insulate it and get a very small heater for it.

christi1 said:

Looks great, but I'd guess it drives like an office block on anything but a dead straight road, I'm looking at doing something simple with my disco1, a bed sink+cooker affair, something easily removable, either that, or a trailer tent,

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That's what worries me.....it seems excessively heavy given its not fitted out yet. Good luck with your project. The bed is the big challenge. Sinks are overrated. Even in a motorhome people will use a container instead.

SpaceDawg said:

Hi John,

Myself and the other half though about this a lot and where we got to is just chuck a bed in the back of a 110; however, we don't have a 110 but a 90 so we have a pupup tent. I personally would not sleep on a roof in a roof tent because they are very expensive and shift the centre of gravity up, also if you going off road and things like branches go over the roof then they can catch the covers. If however you somewhere with bugs and snakes you don't want to eat you then they are perfect.

Unless you have a lot of money I'd just get a 110 and put a bed in the back, if you want it a little warm then insulate it and get a very small heater for it.

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Cheers for that, I'm not the only one struggling with this then I agree about the roof tent.....sounds great and conjures up the image of dodging wild animals on the seringeti...but not for me either

John Laws said:

That's what worries me.....it seems excessively heavy given its not fitted out yet. Good luck with your project. The bed is the big challenge. Sinks are overrated. Even in a motorhome people will use a container instead.

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saw a great little alternative to a sink on Dragons den on Iplayer last night, think it was episode 3 or 4, basically a water bottle with a teat that released enough water to rinse your hands when you touched it, I always think the shower in a caravan is a waste of space too, seems easier to just use the campsite facilities, n who want to empty and clean a loo magazine every day whilst on holiday?

I know its a bit of a faff setting it all up, but I thought this looks quite good,
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sunncamp-...650387?hash=item4d48e81253:g:UTsAAOSwU-pXq2CH

OK firstly handling. In my previous job I fairly regularly drove a 62 plate Defender with an ambulance box body conversion. There were no issues with power, and off road ability was fairly good but handling around roundabouts and steep corners was horrible, and of course side slopes were a big no! Prior to that we had a td5 with a similar (but smaller) box body on the back which handled slightly better! When that reached the point it was no longer capable of meeting Care Quality Commission standards it was sold to someone who turned it into a motorhome. An old military or civilian landrover ambulance may be a good route to go down as you will know the conversion to a box-body has been done well. The handling was probably slightly worse than a coach built motorhome

I guess your decision has to come down to "what do you want to get out of it". I'd be tempted to go for a fairly standard Landrover, and then tow whatever accommodation meets your needs behind it. Whether thats an expedition trailer, a caravan or a trailer tent. The latter in particular could relatively easily be modified with some bigger wheels, uprated suspension, etc to make it more friendly to tow behind the defender. Also has the advantage that if you're staying in the same place for a few days you don't have to pack your accommodation away in order to use your vehicle!

christi1 said:

saw a great little alternative to a sink on Dragons den on Iplayer last night, think it was episode 3 or 4, basically a water bottle with a teat that released enough water to rinse your hands when you touched it, I always think the shower in a caravan is a waste of space too, seems easier to just use the campsite facilities, n who want to empty and clean a loo magazine every day whilst on holiday?

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I think simple solutions like that are great. I do use my shower.... Its not fun but once you get the hang it gets the job done! Emptying the loo cassette is revolting and by far the worst thing about Motorhoming. I'm seriously looking at a dry composting solution for my next project.

christi1 said:

I know its a bit of a faff setting it all up, but I thought this looks quite good,
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sunncamp-...650387?hash=item4d48e81253:g:UTsAAOSwU-pXq2CH

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I've no experience of this kind of kit. It looks interesting but I wonder is it too much faff. Could be the sort of solution I'm looking for though

John Laws said:

I think simple solutions like that are great. I do use my shower.... Its not fun but once you get the hang it gets the job done! Emptying the loo cassette is revolting and by far the worst thing about Motorhoming. I'm seriously looking at a dry composting solution for my next project.

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Probably not as revolting as being donated a 15 year old caravan for a project which was missing the keys. Towed it home along bumpy lanes, managed to get the door open, and discovered that not only was the toilet casette full (bear in mind the caravan hadn't been used for over a year!) but they hadn't closed the little valve that stops the toilet regurgitating its contents all over the bathroom floor.

private penguin said:

OK firstly handling. In my previous job I fairly regularly drove a 62 plate Defender with an ambulance box body conversion. There were no issues with power, and off road ability was fairly good but handling around roundabouts and steep corners was horrible, and of course side slopes were a big no! Prior to that we had a td5 with a similar (but smaller) box body on the back which handled slightly better! When that reached the point it was no longer capable of meeting Care Quality Commission standards it was sold to someone who turned it into a motorhome. An old military or civilian landrover ambulance may be a good route to go down as you will know the conversion to a box-body has been done well. The handling was probably slightly worse than a coach built motorhome

I guess your decision has to come down to "what do you want to get out of it". I'd be tempted to go for a fairly standard Landrover, and then tow whatever accommodation meets your needs behind it. Whether thats an expedition trailer, a caravan or a trailer tent. The latter in particular could relatively easily be modified with some bigger wheels, uprated suspension, etc to make it more friendly to tow behind the defender. Also has the advantage that if you're staying in the same place for a few days you don't have to pack your accommodation away in order to use your vehicle!

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many thanks, that is very useful feedback. I not worried about the off road handling because that will be relatively infrequent but if you think it would handle worse than a coach built around corners, that would concern me. Mine handles relatively well by motorhome standards but I wouldn't want anything worse.

It looks like the concensus is forming around some type of trailer solution.

Thanks again