Buying Freelander 2. Manual or Auto?

Cobby44 · Jan 9, 2022

Hello,

After 8 years of owning my FL1 TD4 06 I’m finally looking to PX for the FL2. I’ve done a fair bit of research so far, looking at models, what’s the entry level level, what’s top spec etc. I’ve even got a Freelander 1&2 book (bought for Christmas) to give me an idea of the history & hopefully make the right decision & seamless switch from predecessor too successor.

I’ve always said I’d never buy an auto, as I like to be in total control & manage the clutch, gears whilst steering (I find it the total experience still to this day after 12 years of driving). However I’ve seen done models that have the more appealing external package (body kit) but they all tend to be autos. I’ve also seen the TD4 HSE & Td4e Le Aspen manual models too that I like.

What are the benefits of an auto against the man? Is it a smoother drive? I appreciate the mpg may be less but at the end of the day, it’s a Land Rover. I’ve driven an auto before but never a FL2 auto. I intend to try at least 1 or 2 out to see what’s what.

Can anyone advise from history or experience what they’re like? What the things to look out for are?

I’m look to spend around 8-9k.

Many thanks

Nodge68 · Jan 9, 2022

First off, sell the FL1 privately, it'll be worth much more than what you'll get as a trade in.

Personal preference reference manual or auto.

I'd have preferred an auto, however my wife prefers a manual, so that's what I bought.

Spec wise, the SE and HSE are well equipped, the latter getting full leather with heated memory seats, HID headlamps and the 14 speaking logic 7 sound system.

I'd not bother paying extra for a few pieces of painted plastic on the outside, as they serve no function, other than cosmetic, although the rear spoiler will likely help keep the back of the vehicle a bit cleaner.

Thorough servicing is much more important than some painted jewellery on the outside.

Cobby44 · Jan 9, 2022

Nodge68 said:
First off, sell the FL1 privately, it'll be worth much more than what you'll get as a trade in.

Personal preference reference manual or auto.

I'd have preferred an auto, however my wife prefers a manual, so that's what I bought.

Spec wise, the SE and HSE are well equipped, the latter getting full leather with heated memory seats, HID headlamps and the 14 speaking logic 7 sound system.

I'd not bother paying extra for a few pieces of painted plastic on the outside, as they serve no function, other than cosmetic, although the rear spoiler will likely help keep the back of the vehicle a bit cleaner.

Thorough servicing is much more important than some painted jewellery on the outside.

Thanks Nodge.

Re selling privately, I’d thought about this but then it’s just the whole timing thing, I need to make sure I’ve got a replacement lined up so I’m not without transport.

Could I ask what model you have? And how you find driving it? Have you had any issues with it at all?

Why would you have an auto over a manual?

thanks

Nodge68 · Jan 9, 2022

Cobby44 said:
Thanks Nodge.

Re selling privately, I’d thought about this but then it’s just the whole timing thing, I need to make sure I’ve got a replacement lined up so I’m not without transport.

Could I ask what model you have? And how you find driving it? Have you had any issues with it at all?

Why would you have an auto over a manual?

thanks

That's unfortunate, as traders don't give you anything like the same amount you'd get in a private sale.

Our FL2 is a 58 2009MY TD4 manual SE in Rimini Red, in immaculate condition, except for some mechanical issues which it came with.

I bought mine with issues, which was deliberate, as I was on a tight budget (under £4,000), and wasn't 100% sure I'd like the FL2 long term.

I had to replace a piston in the engine, and the cylinder head too, as someone dropped a nut into the boost pipe, which found it's way into the engine.

I also had to replace the rear diff (it was a replacement, but whomever fitted it didn't put any oil in it, so it seized), which I decided to rebuild before fitting it.

I also replaced all 4 brake rotors, pads, calipers, and flexible pipes, as I don't trust anyone with brake maintenance, but myself.

I now prefer automatics myself (I'm getting lazy with age) however my wife prefers a manual box, so that's what we have. We spend less on fuel as a result, so it's a win win for her, and a win for our bank account.

The FL2 drives nicely, and has plenty of torque, so you don't need to work the gearbox, like we do with our petrol CX5 manual.

Hippo · Jan 9, 2022

There's more auto FL2's on the road than FL1's. Mainly because peeps are more likely to buy an auto on more expensive/upmarket cars, which the FL2 was when sold. The FL2 auto is very clever . Available on both TD4 and SD4 engine options. If you go oft road the auto will benefit you as you won't need to slip the clutch to go slow. If you tow a lot it makes it easier. Auto's get less mpg than manuals but you don't have to change the clutch on a manual. So the cost saving sort of balances out.

We buy any car - may give you a betterer price than you expect. Try them out to see what they will give you. Then ignore them and see what they come back with.

Hippo · Jan 9, 2022

Forgot to say I went with the auto option on mine.

https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/freelander-2-sales-brochures.271984/

Kevm · Jan 10, 2022

Auto every time, I can see no advantage that the manual offers ( other than a tiny weeny MPG one ).

In my opinion the Auto suits 4wd better, tows better, is more rugged, and offers a more relaxed driving experience ( especially at slower speeds ).

Also you can change the gears manually in it if you feel you must.

However...." like to be in total control & manage the clutch, gears whilst steering (I find it the total experience still to this day after 12 years of driving".....might have answered your own question.

Cobby44 · Jan 12, 2022

Kevm said:
Auto every time, I can see no advantage that the manual offers ( other than a tiny weeny MPG one ).

In my opinion the Auto suits 4wd better, tows better, is more rugged, and offers a more relaxed driving experience ( especially at slower speeds ).

Also you can change the gears manually in it if you feel you must.

However...." like to be in total control & manage the clutch, gears whilst steering (I find it the total experience still to this day after 12 years of driving".....might have answered your own question.

Hello Kev,

Thanks for your reply. I can live with a little less mpg. There would be no dual mass flywheel or clutch that need replacing. Is there anything that I would need to look out for on an auto?

Re changing gears if needed, is this done via paddles on the steering wheel?

Can I ask what you drive?

Cobby44 · Jan 12, 2022

Hippo said:
There's more auto FL2's on the road than FL1's. Mainly because peeps are more likely to buy an auto on more expensive/upmarket cars, which the FL2 was when sold. The FL2 auto is very clever . Available on both TD4 and SD4 engine options. If you go oft road the auto will benefit you as you won't need to slip the clutch to go slow. If you tow a lot it makes it easier. Auto's get less mpg than manuals but you don't have to change the clutch on a manual. So the cost saving sort of balances out.

We buy any car - may give you a betterer price than you expect. Try them out to see what they will give you. Then ignore them and see what they come back with.

Evening Lord H,

That’s encouraging to hear. I really haven’t heard that much bad feedback on the FL2 so far, on either manual or auto. So what’s the difference between the TD4 & SD4? Is it the bhp?

WBAC gave me a quote of £1100. I thought that was an insult if I’m honest. Will dealers offer me around the same do you think?

Cobby44 · Jan 12, 2022

Nodge68 said:
That's unfortunate, as traders don't give you anything like the same amount you'd get in a private sale.

Our FL2 is a 58 2009MY TD4 manual SE in Rimini Red, in immaculate condition, except for some mechanical issues which it came with.

I bought mine with issues, which was deliberate, as I was on a tight budget (under £4,000), and wasn't 100% sure I'd like the FL2 long term.

View attachment 256335
I had to replace a piston in the engine, and the cylinder head too, as someone dropped a nut into the boost pipe, which found it's way into the engine.

I also had to replace the rear diff (it was a replacement, but whomever fitted it didn't put any oil in it, so it seized), which I decided to rebuild before fitting it.

I also replaced all 4 brake rotors, pads, calipers, and flexible pipes, as I don't trust anyone with brake maintenance, but myself.

I now prefer automatics myself (I'm getting lazy with age) however my wife prefers a manual box, so that's what we have. We spend less on fuel as a result, so it's a win win for her, and a win for our bank account.

The FL2 drives nicely, and has plenty of torque, so you don't need to work the gearbox, like we do with our petrol CX5 manual.

I just did a quote on WeBuyAnyCar online & came back with £1100. Which isn’t enough in my eyes. Maybe private selling is the way. But it’s the time & hassle.

It’s admirable that you’ve been able to fix these mechanical issue’s yourself. This would be beyond my capabilities. My car care goes as far as keeping it clean, tidy, interior & exterior. Keeping all liquids fluids topped up. Tyres pumped up.

Are they good for mileage? Do you know of any common faults?

Nodge68 · Jan 12, 2022

Cobby44 said:
WBAC gave me a quote of £1100.

That's surprisingly high IMO.

Cobby44 said:
Will dealers offer me around the same do you think?

Less I'd think.

Cobby44 said:
Are they good for mileage? Do you know of any common faults?

The engine is good for around 300k miles, as long as it's maintained correctly.

Common issues are rear diff failure, Haldex failure, and PTU failure, some of these can be put down to LRs silly long service interval on these items, mostly they fail long before the service is due.

Other common issues are EGR valve failure, throttle body failure, turbo issues, wheel bearings, power steering pipes rusting through, power steering reservoir filter blockage, oil leaks from various places on the engine, and electrical issues too, boot microswitch is common, the electronic steering lock can give issues, also with other minor systems can give trouble, namely the infotainment system, the BT module being particularly common.

I think that's about it, I know it sounds extensive, but in reality, most vehicles are trouble free, as long as maintained and repaired as needed.

Nodge68 · Jan 12, 2022

Cobby44 said:
So what’s the difference between the TD4 & SD4? Is it the bhp?

The TD4 was available as a manual or automatic, and has 160 BHP, with 420Nm of torque.

The SD4 is available as an automatic only, has 190 BHP, but still 420Nm of torque, the extra power being delivered above 3600 RPM.

Nodge68 · Jan 12, 2022

Cobby44 said:
I can live with a little less mpg. There would be no dual mass flywheel or clutch that need replacing. Is there anything that I would need to look out for on an auto?

The MPG difference depends on the sort of driving you do, but it's about 5 MPG on average.

The clutch is good for 130k miles, and the DMF will last 2 clutches.

The automatic needs fluid changes every 75k miles, or more regularly if preferred, but cost a couple of hundred £ a time, which adds up to the same cost of a clutch, over the same distance, so in reality there's little in the cost differences between auto and manual, just the automatic will use more fuel.

Hippo · Jan 13, 2022

Cobby44 said:
Evening Lord H,

That’s encouraging to hear. I really haven’t heard that much bad feedback on the FL2 so far, on either manual or auto. So what’s the difference between the TD4 & SD4? Is it the bhp?

WBAC gave me a quote of £1100. I thought that was an insult if I’m honest. Will dealers offer me around the same do you think?

Not sure what dealers will offer on part exchange. Used car prices have been rising a bit since the virus started. It's a case of asking around. The more you spend with them, the more they will offer on a part exchange. Clean and tidy sells betterer.

The SD4 has more power than the TD4. There's two versions of the TD4. The earlier one had 160bhp. The later 150bhp. The later TD4 shares the same turbo as the SD4. Althought slower 0 to 60mph, the FL2 TD4 shouldn't be ignored. It's got the same 0 to 60mph time of the FL1 v6 petrol. Has the added benefit of betterer fuel economy than the FL1 v6 anorl.

The FL2 is the most reliable of vehicles produced by LR over a number of decades. Yes, they can fail. Yes, they have a few known issues. But on the whole they're quite reliable. You can always buy a bad one. But that can happen with any model of car. Run them for long enough and you'll work out where the problem issues are. All cars have fail points. The FL2 gives you style, comfort and value for money. MPG is reasonable. Capable oft road anorl. Pick yer route carefully and it's surprising what they can do.

FL2 oft road = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzPiq_fcLqY

Cobby44 · Jan 13, 2022

Nodge68 said:
That's surprisingly high IMO.

Less I'd think.

The engine is good for around 300k miles, as long as it's maintained correctly.

Common issues are rear diff failure, Haldex failure, and PTU failure, some of these can be put down to LRs silly long service interval on these items, mostly they fail long before the service is due.

Other common issues are EGR valve failure, throttle body failure, turbo issues, wheel bearings, power steering pipes rusting through, power steering reservoir filter blockage, oil leaks from various places on the engine, and electrical issues too, boot microswitch is common, the electronic steering lock can give issues, also with other minor systems can give trouble, namely the infotainment system, the BT module being particularly common.

I think that's about it, I know it sounds extensive, but in reality, most vehicles are trouble free, as long as maintained and repaired as needed.

Certainly sounds like they’re good for at least the next 10 years. Reading through that list, I started to dread however as you said, not all of them have these issues. Some of them very little.

there’s a FL2 XS 2011 Auto locally that I’m going to test at the weekend. Get the feel for it. The more I think about it the more it’s appealing to me.

Cobby44 · Jan 13, 2022

Nodge68 said:
The MPG difference depends on the sort of driving you do, but it's about 5 MPG on average.

The clutch is good for 130k miles, and the DMF will last 2 clutches.

The automatic needs fluid changes every 75k miles, or more regularly if preferred, but cost a couple of hundred £ a time, which adds up to the same cost of a clutch, over the same distance, so in reality there's little in the cost differences between auto and manual, just the automatic will use more fuel.

Can I ask, what’s a DMF? Also re the fluid, the purpose of this is? Forgive me, not familiar with an auto.

Nodge68 · Jan 13, 2022

Cobby44 said:
there’s a FL2 XS 2011 Auto locally that I’m going to test at the weekend.

The XS is a good spec. It should have leather seats (I can't remember if they're heated), but it's similar in spec to an SE, with full leather over the SE's ½ leather/cloth, but missing the sunroof.

Cobby44 said:
Can I ask, what’s a DMF? Also re the fluid, the purpose of this is? Forgive me, not familiar with an auto.

DMF is a duel mass flywheel. Its designed to make a diesel engine more smooth running, and a bit softer on the clutch/gearbox. Only manual gearbox FL2s have a DMF and clutch.

An automatic gearbox uses a special fluid as part of the drive (a sort of fluid clutch), which degrades over time. Think of automatic box fluid as machine blood, which if it goes bad, kills the gearbox.
Unfortunately LR decided to give all the Freelander 2 fluids really long service intervals of 150k miles, which effectively kills the very components it's supposed to be protecting.
So timely servicing of all the AWD components is necessary, or the components can fail before they should.

Cobby44 · Jan 16, 2022

Nodge68 said:
The XS is a good spec. It should have leather seats (I can't remember if they're heated), but it's similar in spec to an SE, with full leather over the SE's ½ leather/cloth, but missing the sunroof.

DMF is a duel mass flywheel. Its designed to make a diesel engine more smooth running, and a bit softer on the clutch/gearbox. Only manual gearbox FL2s have a DMF and clutch.

An automatic gearbox uses a special fluid as part of the drive (a sort of fluid clutch), which degrades over time. Think of automatic box fluid as machine blood, which if it goes bad, kills the gearbox.
Unfortunately LR decided to give all the Freelander 2 fluids really long service intervals of 150k miles, which effectively kills the very components it's supposed to be protecting.
So timely servicing of all the AWD components is necessary, or the components can fail before they should.

so I haven’t been to test the auto yet. Purely because it’s a 14 plate so it wouldn’t be of the age that I’d be buying so it doesn’t make sense to test a car of an age that I won’t be purchasing.

Just to throw a spanner in the works, what are your thoughts on the Evoque? I’ve seen a few that might be worth a thought. But I’m not sure. Do you know much about these?

Nodge68 · Jan 16, 2022

Cobby44 said:
Just to throw a spanner in the works, what are your thoughts on the Evoque? I’ve seen a few that might be worth a thought. But I’m not sure. Do you know much about these?

The Evoque isn't very well respected, especially from the Range Rover guys.

It's a kind of less practical, less reliable version of the Freelander 2. A sort of Freelander 2 in a small frilly dress if you like. I'm not a big fan of them myself, they're a bit feminine for me, however my wife loves them, which proves its feminine credentials.

Cobby44 · Jan 16, 2022

Nodge68 said:
The Evoque isn't very well respected, especially from the Range Rover guys.

It's a kind of less practical, less reliable version of the Freelander 2. A sort of Freelander 2 in a small frilly dress if you like. I'm not a big fan of them myself, they're a bit feminine for me, however my wife loves them, which proves its feminine credentials.

Hmmmni suspected as much. I’d seen one locally & my father mentioned about it being more suited to the female population. Said when I see one in the road, have a look at the gender behind the wheel. Despite a car being suited for both genders, it’s surprising how this can put a buyer off. I also don’t think I could go back to a car that sits lower then me when stood next to it. Sticking to the FL2.

I’m at a bit of a dilemma. Having still to try an auto out (although part of me knows this is what I’ll go for), I’m torn between a TD4 or an SD4. Also an older car with Jess mileage or a newer with slightly more. It’s made my decision a bit harder.

thoughts?

Buying Freelander 2. Manual or Auto?

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